What would you do if your CSM was ignoring uniform and grooming standards? (CSM Flournoy)

SSG (Join to see) - My Father was a Mason/Shriner, WWII Vet. And I have 30 years as an LEO with "Cult" training. Masons are NOT a cult. Just because you are secretive does not make you a cult. Major point is that you can stop being a Mason at any time, plus no one controls your money. Cults control everything.

Raquel Rodriguez - LOL- Now it's time for the gathering of the Sisterhood huh? Forget that, it's a matter of Army Standards not personal standards.

SSG (Join to see) -

Freemasonry is not a cult. Look up the definition. Read. Learn. As for it being a 'secret society,' look around. See those big blue buildings with the compass and square? Not very secretive, eh? Right out there in public. While not being a 'secret society,' it is a fraternity with secrets, all based on tradition. Why were Masons so secretive in the past? Well, the Catholic Church and others wanted them dead because the fraternity accepts the concept of the brotherhood of man, where each sees God in their own way. Catholics need intermediaries (Popes, priests, etc.). Have you ever noticed that the MI community keeps secrets? Are they a cult in your opinion? INSCOM, the cult of secrets?

Well said Mr La Rue . . Well said

Very well said Mr. La Rue! You're also a great teacher, my son Dakota Seibert still admires you. He graduates next Tuesday from Bartlett. Thank you for being an awesome role model.

Thank you so much for the kind words, and please congratulate Dakota for me!

Classic

Someone finally said it!! I've been saying it for years.

Let's not pretend as if people of color are the ONLY race that has uniform infractions. Call it how it is. An NCO who failed to uphold the standard. If a "Army Leader" is afraid to make a correction then that is not a real "Army Leader" then.

I agree totally and they are afraid in a peaceful environment how can a soldier be expected to trust and rely on them to lead them in a combat environment. That shows cowardess not courage that you can feel safe to risk your life to follow.

Wow.... just unbelievable it has gone on this long.

CSM (Join to see) - You'd be surprised just how long.

I would like to say to you that from what you wrote you were and probably still are someone that many can learn from and respect as a leader and guide in life. I had a some what similar issue that didn't turn out so good with my Battalion Commander and CSM at 3-43 ADA in 1988 during an IG Inspection we were on lock-down and I was the CQ I had the responsibility of security for entry into our barracks procedure said I had to check the Military issued ID of everyone entering the building against my access roster if they had no ID in their possession or were not on my roster they were not to be allowed entry . No where did it say exceptions for personnel I personally recognized so when my Battalion Commander showed up and refused to present his ID I refused him entry to my building he tried to go pass me I had my armed guards block him and escort him out of the entrance. As this was going on the IG Inspector was standing beside me he said nothing not even when my CSM came and started screaming at me and disrespecting me in front of everyone and anyone that could hear him my Battery Commander came out and silenced the CSM. Within 60 days I was transferred to another Battalion and the Battalion Commander was relentless in his attacks on my Battery Commander. However in the evaluation report by the IG the inspector passed us with flying colors and specifically mentioned my professionalism and attention to detail in my duties. I wish all soldiers and leaders would realize the oath we took did not say follow, enforce and defend the Laws, Rules and Regulations that are easy or that you like it said ALL and all enemies foreign and domestic.

SPC (Join to see) - Folks tend to remember the really good, and really poor performers, the middle unfortunately get lost to time.

CSM Richard StCyr - I spent a lot of time mastering my medical craft, heading into my deployment, so I spent a lot of time in the field and rotating clinics... There were many people in my unit who forgot I existed, and there were periods of time I only existed when a scapegoat (ie, "The Private who doesn't know any better did it").
So to have the BDE Co remember me, when my own platoon didn't, was a profound moment for me.
He was one of the few leaders in my career who were effortlessly respectable, and that event solidified that notion.

SPC (Join to see) - We used to have to deal with folks forgetting their sliced element Soldiers, it became habit to check and make sure they were getting simple support from the units they were working with, unbelievable things like water and chow and fuel would be forgotten. Sounds like the BC had it together.

As a former MP, I will say that there is nothing about Infantry or "almost Infantry" in us. About the CSM, she has her own folks that she works for. She is not a representative of the MP Corps. There are always issues that we deal with as Soldiers. Please do not make any one person the example of anything.

LTC (Join to see) - a. Shoes, oxford, black, female.

(1) Type. The shoes are clothing bag issue items.

(2) Description.

(a) The shoes are made from an approved specification or pattern, or from a similar commercial design and are made of leather, poromeric, or patent leather. The shoe is a dress tie-oxford style, with at least three eyelets and a closed toe and heel, with the heel no higher than 2 inches. The shoe is plain, with no designs in the shoe material. (b) As an option, females may wear an ankle-high boot, similar to a jodhpur (riding) boot, when wearing slacks. If worn, the boot must be plain, without straps or buckles, with a non-contrasting heel and sole, and a heel no higher than 2 inches. An inconspicuously placed zipper is authorized.

Wondering if either of them are still around; esp bad the brigade commander was obviously protecting her.

BDE commander is a white male (looking at the command photo on the unit .mil webpage) and the CSM in question is a black female (again, by looking at the official photos). Maybe I'm cynical, but I'd say the CO refraining from correcting her, formally if necessary, due to fear of a race/gender harassment investigation, is probably spot on.

Sir the position of her hair ALONG with the color of her hair both fly in the face of the regulation's standards. There is no way a BDE Commander couldn't have noticed this. I suspect he has noticed it now and may have been coached by his higher HQ to fix this situation yesterday. I recall correcting a Hispanic female SP/4 whose BDU pants wear so tightly fitting her gait was affected in a non public setting , only to have a female Hispanic NCO later come to her defense. I told that NCO the same thing that I said to the Soldier, the uniform was ill fitting and she needed to get a properly fitted uniform, period.

He was obviously protecting her for some unknown reason..

I am glad there are NCOS like you still in the Army.

I agree with you I got tired of pulling up in a ponytail then braiding that and rolling it up and pining it so I cut it off and kept on Marching she should have either taken the time to brush it tightly to her head and hair spray it enough or gel it to keep it down and close then braid her pony tail and pin it within reg or cut it off.

I like that. Standards are trigger words.

I would like to correct you this isn't because of Obama Liberal Military the problem with senior personnel setting their own rules and standards and demanding people play by them instead of the UCMJ and regulations has been going on forever even when I served under total Republican rule from 1981 to 1991. So please let's keep it in the correct context the problem is non conformity that has here through out time and the biggest problem a refusal of leaders to take action that is their responsibility to take to correct because of fear of retaliation that may affect their promotion status if it is someone of higher rank or someone with close connections to higher ranking personnel that can affect their promotions

Relax Francis, I was being sarcastic. However, you have to admit that in the age of political correctness, when we cannot even call the enemy by name at the highest level, this is going to be more prevalent and more tolerated for fear of offense. She is a SGM, she knows the standards, she chooses to not follow them...and that IS a liberal problem.

SGT Laura Cooper - The Top Sets the Attitude. Ask a Military Dog Handler. Bad Attitude travels down the Leash. If the Commander In Chief seems to set an attitude based on political correctness et al, you have problems. My Spouse is a Vet, and Peace Time Service seems to increase the B.S. unfortunately.