Posted on Apr 8, 2015
When do you think officers and enlisted can enter into a personal relationship?
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This is mainly just a curiosity question on what the military community at large things about officers and enlisted engaging in personal relationships. Feel free to provide any stories that you may have received over your time in the military.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 22
LTJG (Join to see) , this is how I see your question and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. You appear to be a very young Midshipman, probably 19/20 years old. As a very young adult you are not in control of your hormones.
I'm guessing from the way your question is worded, plus my experience of having served in the Navy for 20 years, is that you are possibly interested in pursuing a "personal" relationship with an enlisted service member.
My advice? Don't do it, it's really not worth the consequences, especially with your being so young.
Here's an example. The Navigation Officer (LTjg), a male, and a female QMSN, already had a professional relationship as he was the Division Officer.
These 2 decided to hell with regulations and entered into a personal, sexual relationship. They were living together and even took leave together to go meet her family. We were at a small command (less than 300 people) so word got out pretty fast.
Both members got admin separations from the Navy and also spent some time on restriction with loss of pay. The female also lost some rank.
If I totally misunderstood your question I apologize in advance. Just trust me when I say it isn't worth it except in those rare circumstances where there was a pre-existing relationship. I.e., dual enlisted married couple and one spouse gets a commission (which I've seen many times). More rarely (and I've seen this a couple of times as well), a commissioned officer is married to a civilian to later decides to enlist in the Navy.
Yet another example is if there is a family relationship. I have a cousin who is a Major in the Army. Granted, different branches so our paths never crossed, but still. When I spoke to my cousin on the phone or saw him at family functions, you can rest assured neither of us observed "military protocol" and addressed each other by our first names.
I'm guessing from the way your question is worded, plus my experience of having served in the Navy for 20 years, is that you are possibly interested in pursuing a "personal" relationship with an enlisted service member.
My advice? Don't do it, it's really not worth the consequences, especially with your being so young.
Here's an example. The Navigation Officer (LTjg), a male, and a female QMSN, already had a professional relationship as he was the Division Officer.
These 2 decided to hell with regulations and entered into a personal, sexual relationship. They were living together and even took leave together to go meet her family. We were at a small command (less than 300 people) so word got out pretty fast.
Both members got admin separations from the Navy and also spent some time on restriction with loss of pay. The female also lost some rank.
If I totally misunderstood your question I apologize in advance. Just trust me when I say it isn't worth it except in those rare circumstances where there was a pre-existing relationship. I.e., dual enlisted married couple and one spouse gets a commission (which I've seen many times). More rarely (and I've seen this a couple of times as well), a commissioned officer is married to a civilian to later decides to enlist in the Navy.
Yet another example is if there is a family relationship. I have a cousin who is a Major in the Army. Granted, different branches so our paths never crossed, but still. When I spoke to my cousin on the phone or saw him at family functions, you can rest assured neither of us observed "military protocol" and addressed each other by our first names.
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LTJG (Join to see)
PO1 John Miller I am 22. I was prior enlisted before this (though not as long as you by any stretch) so i am not as young as you think. And no i am not looking into it. Mainly curiosity.
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Personally I find nothing wrong with it as long as the two people involved are not in one another's chain of command. I think that by limiting a soldiers choice it can cause issues of hiding the relationship until it is to late and one or both soldiers involved get in trouble.
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Just don't do it. At worst, you get nailed by someone who has a very strict view of things. At best, you limit the officer's career by making it impossible for one of you to ever fall under the command of the other. As they climb the ranks, that will be harder and harder to avoid.
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In very few cases it is acceptable after the fact, for instance as a Mustang I had friends that were married as enlisted and one became an officer. Otherwise such a relationship should be avoided at all cost.
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Pre-existing relationship only. And then make sure you stay out of eachother's chains of command.
I'll re-post a related answer I've made on this thread:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/fraternization-and-the-reserves-where-is-the-line
Fraternization policies are intended to improve combat efficacy, they must be obeyed in view of their extreme and ultimate possible consequences. Could your relationship with an individual alter your choice to risk his or her life compared to a peer? Then that relationship is wrong.
When it comes to the National Guard I like to ask: "What would Captain Isaac Davis do?"
Hint: (Real Quote) "I have not a man that is afraid to go." Followed by his own death leading his company advancing on the bridge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Davis_(soldier)
I'll re-post a related answer I've made on this thread:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/fraternization-and-the-reserves-where-is-the-line
Fraternization policies are intended to improve combat efficacy, they must be obeyed in view of their extreme and ultimate possible consequences. Could your relationship with an individual alter your choice to risk his or her life compared to a peer? Then that relationship is wrong.
When it comes to the National Guard I like to ask: "What would Captain Isaac Davis do?"
Hint: (Real Quote) "I have not a man that is afraid to go." Followed by his own death leading his company advancing on the bridge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Davis_(soldier)
Fraternization and the Reserves - Where is the line? | RallyPoint
This question may very well apply to Active Duty as well, as it leads to some larger ones of, "What actually constitutes fraternization / what is the intent?"However, I address the larger issue to the Reserve components. When a Reserve Servicemember is only "on duty" one weekend a month, can you expect the same fraternization policies? More specifically, what if two people share a civilian work relationship, but also a military reservist one?...
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I personally believe Never is an effective answer then it becomes black and white with no area of grey that can be misinterpreted.
I personally know two individuals that engaged in a relationship as enlisted members. Girl gets pregnant, they get married and he enters the officer program and is now a commissioned officer. She is still enlisted with no plans of getting out and he is an Officer. No good all around. Lower pay grades that don't know their history may think it's ok for them to engage in the same behavior. There are other situations that can become uncomfortable for not only them but those around them if out in public or any command functuon.
I personally know two individuals that engaged in a relationship as enlisted members. Girl gets pregnant, they get married and he enters the officer program and is now a commissioned officer. She is still enlisted with no plans of getting out and he is an Officer. No good all around. Lower pay grades that don't know their history may think it's ok for them to engage in the same behavior. There are other situations that can become uncomfortable for not only them but those around them if out in public or any command functuon.
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CW3 (Join to see)
They married prior to him becoming an officer, right? What would you have them do, give up their careers? This isn't reasonable.
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PO3 Tanis Huston
Reading back on my posting I am kicking myself because your comment is completely accurate and your questions are completely fair. However the kicking myself part come from the fact that I assumed it was obviously (realize now it is not) that is was a one night stand so to speak type of relationship and marraige was only decided after the pregnancy. The actual time line is not that of two people in a long term relationship and he was already accepted into the officer program and was waiting on a date to start school. And I apologize that there is far more information that would probably change the whole view on the situation however due to personal ties to one of the individuals and the fact that they are still active duty I choose not to air everything but what I do know is his actions where unbecoming of an Officer.
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If you begin a relationship after commissioning, regardless of branch of service, it's technically fraternization. If you choose to build a relationship with someone who isn't in your sphere of command I don't think that is too closely enforced though. I know we have a lot of briefings on the importance of not fraternizing.
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I'm fine with any of the middle three. If the relationship is prior to the military, or they are not in the same chain of command, or in different services, it shouldn't really matter. That and we are supposed to be professionals, and separate work and home.
Now I know that might not always happen, but the chain of command can handle those cases.
Now I know that might not always happen, but the chain of command can handle those cases.
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