Posted on Mar 22, 2014
When is it OK to display religious verses in military settings? What about your barracks?
20.2K
567
295
13
13
0
Touchy subject, but a battle wanted me to post this to get feedback. (seriously his question, but it was good enough for me ask, he thinks RP is like FB) An Air Force Cadet wrote a Biblical Verse on his white board on his room door. Not in his room, but on the outside facing the hallway. After a few months he was instructed to erase it or be released from Academy. He erased it after a short debate with his leadership. I'm assuming he reported this to the media as civilian advocates are trying to boycott the academy now. The verse was a quote that encouraged the Cadet every morning. That's the simplest version of the story.<div><br></div><div>So my question.<div><br><div>1. We swore an Oath of Enlistment that contains "So help me God"</div><div>2. CPT <span style="font-size: small; color: rgb(84, 84, 84); font-family: arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18 [login to see] 39453px;">Kamaljeet S. Kalsi authorized to wear turban and beard for religious reasons</span></div><div><span style="font-size: small; color: rgb(84, 84, 84); font-family: arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18 [login to see] 39453px;">3. Soldiers don't deploy or are sent home from deployments if they claim its against their religion.</span></div></div><div><span style="font-size: small; color: rgb(84, 84, 84); font-family: arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18 [login to see] 39453px;">4. When was religion considered indecent, sexist, racist or hatred. (I should retake my EO course on ALMS)</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; line-height: 22px;"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size: small; color: rgb(84, 84, 84); font-family: arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18 [login to see] 39453px;"><br></span></div><div><font color="#545454" face="arial, sans-serif" size="2"><span style="line-height: 18 [login to see] 39453px;">If a Soldier can't adhere to regulations or standards, they should not be able to enlist or be discharged. Why isn't it that black & white? I started this post thinking "Commandant's discretion" is that the best answer.</span></font></div></div>
Air Force
Religion
Doctrine
Policy
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 44
0
0
0
I guess it depends on the verse. There are plenty of bible verses that would be at odds with the values we have expressed as a nation and a military.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
While I was work one day, they shipped in a new guy to my room. He called and asked if it was OK to put up a few religious things on the walls. When I got back to the room, all 4 walls were COVERED in religious quotes. I'm Buddhist and the ass even had the audacity to light the unlit ceremonial candle on my alter. Couple that with the fact he was in AA and his partner would show up at all hours day and night plus he was quite obviously gay and fond of LOUD rap music (1000 watt stereo in the tiny room) means he wasn't there for very long.
Sorry, a little off topic. We took an oath to defend the constitution which provides "Freedom of and from religion" but tastefulness and moderation.
Sorry, a little off topic. We took an oath to defend the constitution which provides "Freedom of and from religion" but tastefulness and moderation.
(0)
(0)
CW3 (Join to see)
Voted up and down in the same thread should prove that I'm acting according to sincerely held opinions and not just acting in a knee-jerk, emotional manner.
And yes, when you're a captive audience, that means TPTB don't get to push religion on you, but I suspect you and I are using two different definitions.
Back to my example. If there's a unit ceremony that's our place of duty, and it opens with a benediction, it's not a big deal to *have* the prayer....it is a big deal, if an atheist is standing there quietly looking around while everyone else bows their head and prays....and someone wants to jump in his shit over it.
Freedom from religion means no one is required to pray at that ceremony.
And yes, when you're a captive audience, that means TPTB don't get to push religion on you, but I suspect you and I are using two different definitions.
Back to my example. If there's a unit ceremony that's our place of duty, and it opens with a benediction, it's not a big deal to *have* the prayer....it is a big deal, if an atheist is standing there quietly looking around while everyone else bows their head and prays....and someone wants to jump in his shit over it.
Freedom from religion means no one is required to pray at that ceremony.
(1)
(0)
SFC(P) (Join to see)
We are a nation founded on Natural Rights. These rights come from a God. To deny God is to deny the rational for how we, as a nation, were founded.
(2)
(0)
CW3 (Join to see)
It isn't just LEADERSHIP coerced participation. Do not discount the power of peer pressure.
(0)
(0)
Sgt Packy Flickinger
Id disagree on some of the take on religion. You can not expect to be completely isolated from anything in public. Those who get offended and in an uproar by seeing something in public they don't like need to become agoraphobic or beaten until they do. We are not forced to adhear to any religion or prey 5 times a day to the east or risk getting beaten. Thats what I take as freedom of (and from) religion. I never went to church on Sunday during boot camp like everybody else and I wasn't given any shit about it either. Even though at least one of my DI's was very religious.
(1)
(0)
0
0
0
World is a Changing and good time and good place for this discussion. I am a Retired Sailor, Lived among and with folks of many different Faiths. Also we Sailor's are not known for a lot of tolerance and patience with those that proselytize. I am a Liberal Catholic by Faith. I congratulate the Army on its decision to allow Sikhs to keep their beloved Characteristic Turban and Beard. While stationed in London I got to know a few in that community and they are oustanding examples of Family Values (Surprising for a Warrior Cast). You are right Religion shouldn't be Indecent, Racist, Sexist or Hatred but it easily becomes so when people mix it with Politics to surpress those of different Faiths, Races and Sexes which is often the case. As a German American Catholic I am reminded of two quotes "We are a Christian Nation" "Ours is a Christian Movement" Adolf Hitler. Religion when mixed with Far Right Wing Politics is Fascism and Toxic to our Culture. I hope that helps SSG.
(0)
(0)
SSG Daniel Deiler
How does religion when mixed with Far Right Wing politics equal Fascism? The same can be said of organizations funded by George Soros and far left wing politics being toxic to our Culture. If that is your belief, fine. Fascism is fascism. It has nothing to do with religion or politics because it involves only ONE dictators beliefs, not the beliefs of a group or organization. - See also; Sadaam Hussein
Fascism - a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government.
Fascism - a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government.
(2)
(0)
0
0
0
All the comments are excellent and I really like the approbations.
That being said. I wanted the particular Regulation or discretionary power that would have deemed this inappropriate and on what EXACT basis? The hostile work environment the verse created, the unit cohesive perspective or morale?
AR 600-20 Army Command Policy uses DOD Directive 1300.17
"The Army will approve requests for accommodation of religious practices unless accommodation will have an adverse impact on unit readiness, individual readiness, unit cohesion, morale, discipline, safety, and/or health."
When I think of the CPT's beard, I think of Sand Storms. Sand storms carry viruses and bacteria brought up deep in the sand. Very well known plagues are from the result of large scale Sand Storms. His beard thus will become full of bacteria. Which of course against FM 21-10 Field Sanitation and Personal Hygiene, yet religion trumps the welfare of subordinates.....guess his MEDPROS better reflect his inability to deploy to areas such as these....
. AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 36-2706
1.1 EO Program
1.1.1 The use of disparaging terms with respect to a person’s race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, disability, or genetic information contributes to a hostile work environment and must not be tolerated. Commanders and supervisors should ensure all types of harassment are corrected as soon as possible once they are made aware.
Someone was harassed from the verse would be the bottom line in this case I suppose.
(0)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
The Stars and Stripes article that was released the next day also correlated the hazardous effects of being in a sand storm due to viruses and bacteria. How about this one from a government agency. "pick up additional biological loads (fungal spores, bacteria, viruses, and pollen, etc.) "
"Desert dust research in Kuwait, which focused on “military personnel health protection,” identified 147 bacterial CFU, which included representatives from 10 genera, by gas chromatographic analysis of fatty acid methyl esters and 16S rRNA gene sequencing in settled dust (141). Seven genera were isolated from the atmosphere over Erdemli, Turkey, during Saharan dust events in March 2002, with the most prevalent being species of Streptomyces (82). During a dust event of Middle East origin that impacted the same location in October 2002, species from eight genera were recovered, with the most prevalent belonging to the genus Kocuria"
(0)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
well known plagues. ok. you win. but for last word. i'm sure sand storms have been around for hundreds of years, and make a huge impact on the life expectancy's of the individuals that live there. In Korea, everyone wears surgical masks during storms....i can only stretch so far as to why...maybe because they don't all want H1N1, Bird Flu, or SARS. yes I'm reaching. But I'm letting common sense dictate it.
Shave ALL facial hair? No, we should stay out of sand storms, wash our bodies, and wear surgical masks so we don't inhale the particles. We're not a third world country. We have hygiene. If a Soldier is authorized a beard, is out on patrol, is carrying these spores. Doesn't realize sand storms carry them (apparently not all of us know this) then they get sick and get others sick. huff. Did Uncle Sam back brief you in theater prior to taking your post about these dangers?.... you must really like beards.
(0)
(0)
CPT (Join to see)
Are people seriously trying to say beards should be banned because of the sandstorm hazard when the majority of males who live in regions affected by said sandstorms wear beards? Cultural awareness fail, DEFCON 1
(3)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google