Posted on Dec 27, 2015
When working with a SM that clearly doesn't know his job, how does a lower enlisted handle this without coming off as insubordinate or etc?
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A thousand years ago, I was at Camp Casey, Korea (86-87), and my squad leader (SSG) was functionally illiterate. When he found out I had some college, he made me sit outside his office when doing monthly counseling... "PFC Motyka, how you spell 'Motivation'?" "PFC Motyka, how you spell 'Counsel'?"
On top of this - he couldn't find his ass with both hands if you spotted him nine fingers.
After three months, I couldn't take it any more, and lost it. "Motivation: M-O-D-A-V-A-S-H-U-N," "Counsel: K-O-W-N-S-E-L-L."
Guess what we found out that month? We found out that Top actually picked one platoon each month and read through the counseling statements. My SSG was called in by our Platoon Sergeant (VERY red-faced), and within five minutes, I hear him screaming my name.
Our First Sergeant asked for clarification and I told the truth. "Hey, just have him try to spell 'Platoon'!!" Top gave my SFC a nod and he grabbed me by the shoulder and took me into the (thankfully empty) CO's office and started screaming at me like only a senior NCO and prior Drill Sergeant knows how to do. When he started pushing chairs and knocking crap around, I started to pay attention - and he was all, "AND I'M GONNA BE YELLING AT YOU LIKE THIS BECAUSE IT'S EXPECTED AND YOU'RE GONNA WALK OUT OF HERE AND LOOK LIKE I TORE YOU A NEW ASSHOLE, DO YOU UNDERSTAND?!?!"
I was confused as hell as he kept it up for about fifteen minutes. Top opened the door, and it was like someone just turned off the "Pissed off" switch in my Platoon Sergeant. The SSG was never seen again - relieved for cause and transferred that very day - and our Sergeant got the job as Squad Leader. The matter was never broached again.
Yeah, I don't think that would be allowed any more...
On top of this - he couldn't find his ass with both hands if you spotted him nine fingers.
After three months, I couldn't take it any more, and lost it. "Motivation: M-O-D-A-V-A-S-H-U-N," "Counsel: K-O-W-N-S-E-L-L."
Guess what we found out that month? We found out that Top actually picked one platoon each month and read through the counseling statements. My SSG was called in by our Platoon Sergeant (VERY red-faced), and within five minutes, I hear him screaming my name.
Our First Sergeant asked for clarification and I told the truth. "Hey, just have him try to spell 'Platoon'!!" Top gave my SFC a nod and he grabbed me by the shoulder and took me into the (thankfully empty) CO's office and started screaming at me like only a senior NCO and prior Drill Sergeant knows how to do. When he started pushing chairs and knocking crap around, I started to pay attention - and he was all, "AND I'M GONNA BE YELLING AT YOU LIKE THIS BECAUSE IT'S EXPECTED AND YOU'RE GONNA WALK OUT OF HERE AND LOOK LIKE I TORE YOU A NEW ASSHOLE, DO YOU UNDERSTAND?!?!"
I was confused as hell as he kept it up for about fifteen minutes. Top opened the door, and it was like someone just turned off the "Pissed off" switch in my Platoon Sergeant. The SSG was never seen again - relieved for cause and transferred that very day - and our Sergeant got the job as Squad Leader. The matter was never broached again.
Yeah, I don't think that would be allowed any more...
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1LT William Clardy
I dunno, MCPO (Join to see). Was any government property harmed during the dramatic performance?
And who's going to question it? The first shirt who gave the nod? The PFC who's smart enough to clue know that it's a protective posterial mastication? The staff sergeant who thinks his private is getting reamed for backstabbing him?
And who's going to question it? The first shirt who gave the nod? The PFC who's smart enough to clue know that it's a protective posterial mastication? The staff sergeant who thinks his private is getting reamed for backstabbing him?
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SPC (Join to see), speaking as former 11C, if the problem is leadership skills, then you are probably better off to let it go. Those will be built with time. Remember that working on a mortar is a team effort, and as part of the team then you can try to work with the individual to get his skills straight. If however, he is messing up on live fire FDC plots, or firing the mortar in the wrong direction a few degrees (more than 2-3 degrees) then it is time to talk to the Section/Platoon Sergeant, and let them know what is happening. This is a safety issue that must be addressed before someone is injured or worse. When you address the next higher NCO, be sure to only give the facts. Don't make comments like, "He has no idea what he is doing". Try instead to say something like, "I need to talk to you about a safety issue. I noticed that SGT Smith's plot was over 18 degrees off. We almost (could have) dropped rounds outside the impact zone.", or something to that effect. Don't try to insult the individual in question, try to get him help where he so desperately needs it.
And, be ABSOLUTELY SURE that you know what you are talking about. Regardless of whether you are right or not, don't expect a warm welcome, especially if you are talking about the next higher NCO in your chain of command. But safety is always first priority in any case. Good Luck !!
And, be ABSOLUTELY SURE that you know what you are talking about. Regardless of whether you are right or not, don't expect a warm welcome, especially if you are talking about the next higher NCO in your chain of command. But safety is always first priority in any case. Good Luck !!
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1LT William Clardy
SPC (Join to see), speaking as another old-school 11C who did have to deal with taking up the slack when the section leadership was lacking, PVT Robert Gresham's comments are spot-on. Whenever you are treading into territory where "With all due respect..." would be a valid start to a sentence, *ALWAYS* limit any discussions you have with your higher-ups to known, verifiable facts with your military courtesy amped up to its maximum. The facts will speak for themselves, and your courtesy will be key in avoiding anybody getting distracted by emotional arguments.
The same applies if it's a safety issue: "CHECK FIRE!" is proper for anybody to bark, but in the subsequent discussion what will matter most is making sure that everybody is looking at the facts, not at whether or not you have a bad attitude.
The same applies if it's a safety issue: "CHECK FIRE!" is proper for anybody to bark, but in the subsequent discussion what will matter most is making sure that everybody is looking at the facts, not at whether or not you have a bad attitude.
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SGT Tim Fridley
Sir I hope that you're Section/ PLT SGT were giving your Computer constructive counseling as well to make him better at his job otherwise he could get someone killed or injured.
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PFC Stephan Ellis
"Check fire asshole! Tooooop!! We have a 'Murder1/2' math genius on our hands here!!"
Once upon a time in South Korea, Hawaii, Iraq.
Once upon a time in South Korea, Hawaii, Iraq.
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There are a couple of routes you can take.
1. Probably the most preferred, and best soldier style way you could go, get with an NCO whom you feel comfortable with and that has a good relationship with the person you're talking about and have him/her address the person.
2. If you know this person is reasonable, and will listen to you, then have an "offline" discussion with them. Just be sure you don't make it appear that you are challenging them or questioning their position/authority/leadership. Make it cordial and understanding as to why you're addressing them with the matter at hand. If they're a good Soldier/NCO, then they shouldn't mind that you are looking to improve them as a soldier/leader by helping them and pointing some stuff out.
1. Probably the most preferred, and best soldier style way you could go, get with an NCO whom you feel comfortable with and that has a good relationship with the person you're talking about and have him/her address the person.
2. If you know this person is reasonable, and will listen to you, then have an "offline" discussion with them. Just be sure you don't make it appear that you are challenging them or questioning their position/authority/leadership. Make it cordial and understanding as to why you're addressing them with the matter at hand. If they're a good Soldier/NCO, then they shouldn't mind that you are looking to improve them as a soldier/leader by helping them and pointing some stuff out.
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SGT Tim Fridley
Both these are good routes to take as a Soldier/NCO/Person we should always strive to improve and I found my Troops to be a great source for that and as good a leader you may be someone may just have a way that will work better and that only helps everyone
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