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My son is an E-3 (maybe E-4) stationed at Ft. Wainwright. His original orders out of Ft. Benning included transportation of a vehicle. He was told he would be deploying shortly and could ship his vehicle when he returned from the Iraq and avoid the winter. One year later he's hearing it's too late. And his orders were not returned by some admin guy somewhere. I'm trying to help him get his vehicle from afar, but he says he can't find anybody that has his orders. Hard to believe the Army doesn't have an electronic database. Any clue how I might recommend him to proceed?
Orders
Moving
POV
OCONUS
Fort Wainwright
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 9
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He can print them from IPERMS. They will be under the documents tab. He can download and print as many copies as he likes from there.
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Larry Lefbom
for some reason the IPERMS system doesn't have the original orders from Boot Camp to Ft. Wainwright. His Sgt. says that's not right and is apparently going with him "up the chain".
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It's hard to believe a Soldier wouldn't keep a copy of their own orders, especially when they're given ten, (yes 10) copies of their orders and instructes to keep at least one set for themselves.
Orders are often uploaded to Soldiers Iperms. He should check his OMPF.
Orders are often uploaded to Soldiers Iperms. He should check his OMPF.
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Larry Lefbom
I went through his folder that he carried at Boot Camp graduation and I don't remember 10 copies of anything. And Iperms doesn't have the orders.
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He needs to go see his S1, they are required to keep a file on him with his orders and other documentation from the time of his arrival until 12 months after his departure from his organization.
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My first lesson in the military in regard to how it keeps track of records was before I signed my enlistment contract at MEPS while getting my medical exam.
There was a SGT next to me in one of the lines having to redo is entire medical exam for the sake of a base line, because the Army didn't have his records.
If your son doesn't have them no one else does.
Places to look:
iPerms - he'll have to access it via his CAC ID, this is a long shot, not all of my orders get iPerm'd
Military E-mail - again, he'll have to access it via his CAC ID. This is his best chance.
If someone handed him hard copies and that was all he had well, then that might be that.
There was a SGT next to me in one of the lines having to redo is entire medical exam for the sake of a base line, because the Army didn't have his records.
If your son doesn't have them no one else does.
Places to look:
iPerms - he'll have to access it via his CAC ID, this is a long shot, not all of my orders get iPerm'd
Military E-mail - again, he'll have to access it via his CAC ID. This is his best chance.
If someone handed him hard copies and that was all he had well, then that might be that.
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Larry Lefbom
Thanks. It was drilled in to him at Boot Camp to keep all is records in his folder (it has some catchy nickname that I forget), but apparently he was asked to provide it to somebody before deployment and they would not or could not return it to him. Good hear that IPerm is not infallible, I figured he just wasn't using it correctly.
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Ma’am, your son knows exactly to call the losing unit S1, he can also contact the installation in and out processing. He could also call his former 1SG or unit PAC NCO. He has many outlets. Good luck b
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I'm confused. Did he deploy with his new unit or his old unit at Benning? and who told him he could ship his vehicle upon return from deployment? does he have that in writing or did someone just verbally tell him he could do it? If it's the latter, then he is, unfortunately, SOL. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone has been "told" something that turned out not to be true.
Bottom line: IF he's got it in writing, he can hold them to it, if not there is nothing he can do about it.
Bottom line: IF he's got it in writing, he can hold them to it, if not there is nothing he can do about it.
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Larry Lefbom
Well, I figure you're spot on and I've been riding my son pretty hard about that. This is about the 3rd time he was told something that didn't come through and cost him money. I did come across a regulation (https://www.ustranscom.mil/dtr/part-iv/dtr_part_iv_app_k_3.pdf) that says this: 2. For Army, Marine Corps, Navy, and Coast Guard personnel:
"a. POVs will be accepted when at least 12 months remain to be served at their current
OCONUS duty station at the time the vehicle is delivered to the loading port. An exception
is allowed if the OCONUS area CDR or your commanding officer certifies the vehicle is
necessary in performance of official duties."
So he's got 16 months left right now and if this reg applies maybe I can work it. Problem is that my son is not blessed with the gift of gab and is likely to accede at the first push back from some overworked desk jockey.
"a. POVs will be accepted when at least 12 months remain to be served at their current
OCONUS duty station at the time the vehicle is delivered to the loading port. An exception
is allowed if the OCONUS area CDR or your commanding officer certifies the vehicle is
necessary in performance of official duties."
So he's got 16 months left right now and if this reg applies maybe I can work it. Problem is that my son is not blessed with the gift of gab and is likely to accede at the first push back from some overworked desk jockey.
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He has access to the iPERMS portal thru his CAC Card.
https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Self%20Service
https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Self%20Service
The security accreditation level of this site is UNCLASSIFIED and below. Do not process, store, or transmit any Personally Identifiable Information (PII), UNCLASSIFIED/FOUO or CLASSIFIED information on this system.
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Larry Lefbom
thank you, apparently the iPERMS portal contains some orders, but not the exact order from Benning to Wainwright that spells out the POV allowance and duration of duty.
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MAJ Javier Rivera
Not a show stopper Larry Lefbom!!!!!
Your son can still ge a hold to his last installation in/out processing and ask for a copy. Unless I’m wrong (someone correct me), nothing has changed in the last 4 years since I retired and units are required to keep a suspend file for about 1-2 years. So he might just about to run out of luck!
Your son can still ge a hold to his last installation in/out processing and ask for a copy. Unless I’m wrong (someone correct me), nothing has changed in the last 4 years since I retired and units are required to keep a suspend file for about 1-2 years. So he might just about to run out of luck!
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you usually only have 1 year to ship personal property from home of record. If he was told he could ship upon return from Iraq, then he should go to his S1 and tell them to check his iPerms for his PCS orders.
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If he can reach the S1 from his Basic Training site they may have a copy saved. That should go thru S1 to S1 conversation -or- if needed Command Sergeants Major (CSM) to CSM to get it fixed. Dont have the soldier or even his NCO contact the training unit directly (has been known to cause a bit of flak on the troops skipping the chain).
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Larry Lefbom
Thank you. I don't fully understand "the chain" but it has been firmly impressed upon my son that one must not skip it! That has prevented forward movement on this issue as he's afraid to talk to anybody that's not an E-3 and below. From your's and previous replies, I believe the S1 is the admin guys? Like Radar/Klinger in the old MASH series? Would talking to those guys be considered skipping the chain?
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SFC Dan Thomsen
Nope, I was S1 NCO and I never turned away a troop. Now he might get scolded if he didn't get permission from his leader to go see the S1. Yes it is kind of like Radar/Klinger but they were unit admin guys belonging to a company. Companies (like the Mobile Army Surgical Hospital (MASH) belong to a higher headquarters who have different "S" staff. S1 is Administration.
Chain of Command goes Squad leader, Platoon Leader. Company Commander and then each level above's commander of the previous commander. Now this said, a lot of E-6's and E-7's like to think they are part of the chain of command but they are not by regulation, they are part of the NCO Support channel. This support channel are all enlisted guys like your son. Starts at Squad leader, then Section Sergeant and/or Platoon Sergeant, First Sergeant and then Command Sergeants Major. Commanders and CSM's can get irritable when an Inspector General (IG) is called in without having given them the opportunity to get it fixed or provide a reason why it couldn't be corrected. Usually if you were going to the 1SG or the CSM, they would be walking in the S1's office or calling them into their offices and having them get them answers so it still ends up in the S1's hands. BUT ...the darn CSM Mafia is a powerful thing if the troop does it the proper way and he was done a wrong deed, they don't like to get "it can't be fixed" unless it just can't be. But all of the NCO's prior to the CSM should have well known they pound the ground with the CSM's support at their back and it should rarely have to go to the CSM's or even up to the BN Commander in the chain of command unless the schoolhouse required that much rank to get answers from. Good luck.
Chain of Command goes Squad leader, Platoon Leader. Company Commander and then each level above's commander of the previous commander. Now this said, a lot of E-6's and E-7's like to think they are part of the chain of command but they are not by regulation, they are part of the NCO Support channel. This support channel are all enlisted guys like your son. Starts at Squad leader, then Section Sergeant and/or Platoon Sergeant, First Sergeant and then Command Sergeants Major. Commanders and CSM's can get irritable when an Inspector General (IG) is called in without having given them the opportunity to get it fixed or provide a reason why it couldn't be corrected. Usually if you were going to the 1SG or the CSM, they would be walking in the S1's office or calling them into their offices and having them get them answers so it still ends up in the S1's hands. BUT ...the darn CSM Mafia is a powerful thing if the troop does it the proper way and he was done a wrong deed, they don't like to get "it can't be fixed" unless it just can't be. But all of the NCO's prior to the CSM should have well known they pound the ground with the CSM's support at their back and it should rarely have to go to the CSM's or even up to the BN Commander in the chain of command unless the schoolhouse required that much rank to get answers from. Good luck.
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