Posted on Jul 16, 2016
CPT(P) Miccc Student
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Where do YOU draw the lie and how do you integrate the two? Examples are encouraged.
Posted in these groups: Doctrine DoctrineTRADOCOfficers logo OfficersSenior NCO
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LTC Action Officer
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There is no line. Doctrine is how we do things under assumed/hypothetical circumstances. It serves as the basis to train, equip and array the force. As soon as we're on mission, we are adapting to the situation and threat, using our capabilities to meet the commander's intent.

Successful operations require adaptive, flexible, problem solving leaders to do what is necessary to meet the commander's intent. In other words, leaders who figure out what works.

Leaders need to understand not only what doctrine says, but why it is as it is, which is why knowing the history is so important.
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Capt Michael Greene
Capt Michael Greene
9 y
LTC (Join to see) Question, sir. How well does your answer above hold up in court? That is, if I deviate substantially from doctrine, and I succeed and nobody gets hurt, then I expect no one would complain. However, if I fail the mission or someone gets hurt, then can I successfully raise the defense, "following doctrine is not required--I attempted to adapt to the situation"? I'm very curious about this.
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MSG Student
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Back when 3-21.8 was still an FM, it had a V shaped ambush. Now while it did mention you need wire tight direct fire control measures, I'm going to draw the line and not do a V shaped ambush.
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CPT(P) Miccc Student
CPT(P) (Join to see)
9 y
Probably a great decision hah
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LTC John Wilson
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Edited 9 y ago
LT Everett... To answer your question effectively, you should study the unpublished works of COL John Boyd, the maverick fighter pilot whose theorems on dogfighting tactics led the F-15, the F-16, the F/A-18, the A-10, and a revolution in USMC doctrine. (YouTube has some super videos of Boyd's presentations). But in a nutshell, never accept "Doctrine" at face value...challenge all assumptions.

LT, ALL warfare is ADAPTATION. There are two forms of adaptation: Anticipation, and Improvisation. Anticipation is the ability to imagine what the enemy is capable of and what he will do and then forming a response BEFORE you engage him -- this is why good planning is important (and don't confuse good planning with the MDMP). Improvisation is how you react when your "doctrine" and your plans fall apart on initial contact with the enemy. There are no cook book/school house solutions to any given tactical challenge because warfare is too interactively complex to be reduced to such...the enemy will not conveniently roll over and follow your recipe when victory and/or death are in play.

It is OK to have doctrine, but the day you set it to paper, it becomes dogma -- and it stifles adaptation if one is not careful. The proponents of doctrine as dogma will often use the logical fallacy of Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Appeal to Authority) -- do NOT fall for it!

In order to successfully adapt, you must have plenty of tools in your tool kit. ALL Doctrine is based on the "real-life" experiences gained in past conflict...and this is a two-edged sword...what worked in the past conflict will not always apply in the present situation. However, it may provide a point of departure for you to successfully adapt.

Boyd provides an example of this in his famous "Snowmobile Exercise" (Google it). Boyd would ask his audience to join him on a mental exercise: “Imagine that you are in Florida riding in an outboard motor boat, maybe even towing water skiers. Imagine that you are riding a bicycle on a nice spring day. Imagine that you are a parent taking your son to a department store and that you notice he is fascinated by the toy tractors or tanks with rubber caterpillar treads.

Now imagine that you pull the skies off but you are still on the ski slope. Imagine also that you remove the outboard motor from the motor boat, and you are no longer in Florida. And from the bicycle you remove the handlebar and discard the rest of the bike. Finally, you take off the rubber treads from the toy tractor or tanks; this leaves only the following separate pieces: skis, outboard motor, handle bars and rubber treads.

He then asks; what emerges when you pull all this together? SNOWMOBILE

The message is obvious; to discern what is happening, we must interact in a variety of ways with our environment. We must be able to look at the world from numerous perspectives so that we can generate mental images or impressions (orientation) that correspond with, “what’s happening now?”

The second step of Boyd's OODA Loop -- Orientation -- involves using your mental intuition to gauge the situation through the mental, spiritual, emotional, and cultural filters you were raised with to arrive at an appropriate solution to the problem at hand. If your filters are narrow, then your solutions will prove narrow -- and predictable. In order for you to successfully build a proverbial "snowmobile" you have to equip your mind with the necessary prototypes from which to clip out parts of other "real-life" experiences that do not fit your current situation and then synthesize them into a plan -- your own snowmobile -- to get you out of the jam you presently find yourself in.

This means you should study your own doctrine, other people's doctrine and -- most importantly -- history. That means do not rely strictly on what you were taught at the Army schoolhouse. You have to start reading on your own. And don't just read... STUDY what you read. Make index notes in the margins and write down what you think about what you are reading on the blank pages in the front and back of the book (with page references). Connect those notes with other notes in other books you've read.

As you continue in your career, you teach your junior leaders and Soldiers to do the same... and them have the faith to allow them to make their own "snowmobiles."
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MSG Special Forces Senior Sergeant
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As the NCOIC of Phase 1 of the SF Qualification Coursein 2014, I, with the help of my team, Co and Bn leadership, and SWCS Doctrine division, rewrote a large portion of our POI. These great men had served in a multitude of positions under several different commands. I thought it was vital to hear what everyone had to say and to ensure no opinion was dismissed. We had a ton of experience and buckets of opinion, but in the end we were able to apply logic and come up with a viable and relevant POI that would cover the areas necessary for advancing to phase 2 and set the students up for long term success. I guess time will tell whether we made the right changes. I guess the bottom line is, you need a liberal application of common sense when balancing doctrine and experience.
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Lt Col Commander
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doctine is mean to have everyone speak the same language and have a common frame of reference. We miss use doctrine and confuse it with TTP's or regulation. You don't get convicted under the UCMJ for not following doctrine. With that being said, it is important to know when you are deviating from doctrine or not because everyone is working off the same lexicon based on Doctrine.
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LtCol Mac McCarty
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Doctrine is (generally) written by the survivors. "In this situation, we did thus and so and it worked." You then teach doctrine, but throw in the need to analyze each situation for itself. In booby-trap country, walk to the left of a tree may be the doctrinal answer--the one that usually woks, but remember to look for trip wires and go the other way if you see one!
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MSG Military Police
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Edited 9 y ago
Follow doctrine up to that point where it prevents you from meeting the commander's intent and completing your mission. At that point, adapt.
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SFC Platoon Sergeant
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Doctrine is the basics, versus real life experience is developed base off of current lesson learned which is more in depth My opinion..
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CAPT Kevin B.
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There's several lines we're dealing with. Doctrine at the top talks about orientation, focus, and goals (hate the last word). Training gives you skills to perform the inherent tasks to accomplish the doctrinal stuff. Real life experience (includes mentoring) gives you a better grip on what skills are applied when, where how much, with who, etc. One of the most important skills is knowing when to do nothing. Lack of that skill creates Crusader Rabbits. They bog the organization down with unnecessary churn.

BTW, the most evil word you see in this stuff is "goals". The second most evil word relates to what we do and that is "try". Both are weak when it comes to "This will be the outcome next Tuesday, no excuses." I always made sure my Command was given achievable outcomes and the resources to do it. None of this PC "unfunded mandate" crap. Do things that create the outcome. Trying is not a strategy. You can't point back to goals; only outcomes.
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CPT(P) Miccc Student
CPT(P) (Join to see)
9 y
Love the breakdown into three sub components. I'm going to hold onto that one. Thank you
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LtCol Mac McCarty
LtCol Mac McCarty
9 y
Lee's most famous command: "Take that little hill, if practicable."
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Edited 9 y ago
Doctrine for me has always been the starting point. It is a base to build from. For example, I was an infantry squad leader prior to commissioning. In ATP 3-21.8 there is doctrine for battle drill 6. For the most part it works. However, experience on the battle field has shown that in some ways we needed to adapt in order to be more successful. Instead of ignoring doctrine, I use what works, then tweak and add what enhances it. I cannot think of a time I found doctrine to be completely useless, but I have little experience outside of being a battalion planner, PL, and squad leader. Perhaps other echelons have run into this issue more than I and can comment on it.

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