Posted on Jul 25, 2016
Which course is most beneficial for someone working in a GS/GG position, Project Management Professional (PMP) or Lean Six Sigma?
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As I prepare to transition to my civilian career, I retire in 5 years, I have been researching both of these courses. I will only seek employment in the GS/GG system and not in the private sector. Which of these two courses is most beneficial for someone working in a GS/GG position? I would like pros and cons especially form those who have both certifications.
Posted in these groups: 
Project Management Professional (PMP)
Lean Six Sigma Course
Project Management Professional (PMP) Lean Six Sigma Course
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 10
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So, if you are seeking one of these two certifications, be prepared to use them when putting them on your resume.
I have formal PMP training and decided not to put the cert on my resume after being a PM and later Program Manager. I found herding several different herds of cats to be boring and uninspiring. Just being a resource manager is more my cup of tea. But if you like relying upon others managing resources to accomplish many projects and you get all the disdain for the project slip and budget shortfall then by all means....
LSS is fine but its a stretch to apply it outside of manufacturing to any degree of success, IMO. We had them in FORSCOM HQ but all they did was collect GS-14 pay and produced nothing of consequence. After they touted their proposal, a new green suiter ACoS came in and pooh poohed the proposal and asked for another....wash, rinse, repeat...
I've had several arguments/discussions with LSS Green and Black belts. They have yet to convince me of their long-term practical use in the military (outside of fault reduction and QA/QC improvement in manufacturing and supply chain management).
I have formal PMP training and decided not to put the cert on my resume after being a PM and later Program Manager. I found herding several different herds of cats to be boring and uninspiring. Just being a resource manager is more my cup of tea. But if you like relying upon others managing resources to accomplish many projects and you get all the disdain for the project slip and budget shortfall then by all means....
LSS is fine but its a stretch to apply it outside of manufacturing to any degree of success, IMO. We had them in FORSCOM HQ but all they did was collect GS-14 pay and produced nothing of consequence. After they touted their proposal, a new green suiter ACoS came in and pooh poohed the proposal and asked for another....wash, rinse, repeat...
I've had several arguments/discussions with LSS Green and Black belts. They have yet to convince me of their long-term practical use in the military (outside of fault reduction and QA/QC improvement in manufacturing and supply chain management).
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Personally, I would rather have a person with the PMP. The LSS means you can look at manpower and processes - the PMP means you can get a tasking and use what you have to get the tasking done.
BUT - like I said, that's just my personal opinion.
BUT - like I said, that's just my personal opinion.
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SFC (Join to see)
MCPO (Join to see) Thanks for your input. So, breaking it down "Barny Style" am I interpreting PMP as doing your job? Basically, my job is to take an open office area and ensure there are ten cubicles and a meeting area. I have all the resources. All I need to do is coordinate the efforts to ensure the plan comes to fruition. Or, am I missing something?
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The people I’ve worked with and spoken to prefer the PMP as it demonstrates experience and knowledge to plan, execute, monitor and closeout almost any type of project. The PMI methodology is geared to medium sized projects and not all applies to smaller projects, and may not be enough in itself for a billion dollar mega-project. If I remember correctly LSS is more narrowly focused and is geared towards improving process efficiency and serves as a good compliment to the PMP as LSS type of projects are looked at as specific type of project and as a good compliment to the PMP.
Also to maintain the PMP you need to meet the continuing certification requirements showing that you are maintaining your knowledge and skills. Some organizations that issue the LSS certification do not require any continuing education.
Also to maintain the PMP you need to meet the continuing certification requirements showing that you are maintaining your knowledge and skills. Some organizations that issue the LSS certification do not require any continuing education.
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When I'm looking at resumes for hiring in my group for my civilian job, I'm looking more at experience then the credentials. Having said that, I'd view a PMP as more desirable than a LSS. (Just my perspective.)
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SFC (Join to see)
CDR (Join to see) Thanks for the insight from a hiring perspective. I have my LSS Green Belt. However, based on conversations with others and the posts on this thread I have been leaning more towards starting the PMP and not continuing on to LSS Black Belt.
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I was both a PMP and Army Lean Six Sigma (LSS) Black Belt; also, LSS Program Manager at Military Surface Deployment and Distribution Command. I retired in 2013.
As a manager in both private and public sector, I'll say experience and accomplishment in areas directly related to the job opening were more important than certifications. Some project or program management jobs require a PMP or Program Management Professional (PrMP from PMI) certification.
The PMP is internationally recognized and PMI has set a national standard for project management and project management certification. Getting your PMP requires project management education, project management experience, and passing the PMP exam. Your military experience may fulfill all or part of the PM experience requirement. Some Army training may satisfy some or all of the PM education requirement. Please go to PMI.org and review the requirements. The PMP exam is difficult, but no more so than a graduate course in a scientific or technical field. Several companies offer guaranteed-pass PMP exam prep courses. They cost around $5K. Local PMI Chapters offer exam prep seminars. They are taught by local PMPs and cost about $500 to $1,000. A few government jobs may require a "project management certification," but most won't. However, my PMP helped me get the LSS program manager job with SDDC.
The LSS world is less well structured. There's no national standard for LSS certifications (green belt, black belt, master black belt). Each of the Services and OSD set different requirements for their certifications. These requirements differ from the LSS certifications from educational institutions and corporations. The best practice, in my opinion, is requiring both LSS training and completion of real-world hands-on LSS projects yielding hard savings. The length of the training, number of completed projects, and amount of verified savings varies among organizations granting the certification. If you achieved Army LSS Black Belt certification, it would be most valuable when applying for Army Civilian jobs, but less valuable when applying elsewhere. If you have a certification, you'll need to clearly tell what you did to get it and the results of your projects.
For GS program management job, completion of Defense Acquisition University program management training is important. DAU also certifies DoD employees as Program Managers requiring training and experience in acquisition.
If view of what I've said, I recommend you get the PMP because it is more widely recognized and valuable in both the public and private sector.
As a manager in both private and public sector, I'll say experience and accomplishment in areas directly related to the job opening were more important than certifications. Some project or program management jobs require a PMP or Program Management Professional (PrMP from PMI) certification.
The PMP is internationally recognized and PMI has set a national standard for project management and project management certification. Getting your PMP requires project management education, project management experience, and passing the PMP exam. Your military experience may fulfill all or part of the PM experience requirement. Some Army training may satisfy some or all of the PM education requirement. Please go to PMI.org and review the requirements. The PMP exam is difficult, but no more so than a graduate course in a scientific or technical field. Several companies offer guaranteed-pass PMP exam prep courses. They cost around $5K. Local PMI Chapters offer exam prep seminars. They are taught by local PMPs and cost about $500 to $1,000. A few government jobs may require a "project management certification," but most won't. However, my PMP helped me get the LSS program manager job with SDDC.
The LSS world is less well structured. There's no national standard for LSS certifications (green belt, black belt, master black belt). Each of the Services and OSD set different requirements for their certifications. These requirements differ from the LSS certifications from educational institutions and corporations. The best practice, in my opinion, is requiring both LSS training and completion of real-world hands-on LSS projects yielding hard savings. The length of the training, number of completed projects, and amount of verified savings varies among organizations granting the certification. If you achieved Army LSS Black Belt certification, it would be most valuable when applying for Army Civilian jobs, but less valuable when applying elsewhere. If you have a certification, you'll need to clearly tell what you did to get it and the results of your projects.
For GS program management job, completion of Defense Acquisition University program management training is important. DAU also certifies DoD employees as Program Managers requiring training and experience in acquisition.
If view of what I've said, I recommend you get the PMP because it is more widely recognized and valuable in both the public and private sector.
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
Lt Col Jim Coe thank you respectfully, where could I get started on my PMP, I am located in Newport News, Virginia.
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LTC (Join to see)
I went through Syracuse University’s institute for veterans and military families. If you apply to the program and complete the online PMP courses within 6 months they will pay for 1 PMP exam. While I'm no fan of online courses theirs do a good job of explaining project management according to how PMI views it, explains the Project Management Book of Knowledge (PMBOK), and PMI's vocabulary.
- It is easy to get the required real world hours of project management but documenting them in PMI format takes time in itself. There are several excel templates that you can use to ensure you have everything to document your experience accordingly.
- For study books you should read the PMBOK, but I would recommend only after doing the online courses or prep course to really understand what it is talking about. The book goes through project management according to PMI but does not explain the process itself.
- Several of us have used Rita Mulcahy’s PMP Exam Prep which is one of the more popular.
- The exam was just revised in Jan of 2016 so make sure you get the latest editions of they are out. Although a co-worker recently passed the new test with the old study book, as the only main difference was more focus on management and leadership, and an additional task or two.
- Do multiple online practice exams before the real exam. Once you average 70% to 75% on the practice tests you should be ready for the exam.
- The exam if 4 hours long, and allow you to go back and review questions you can mark for review. It is tiring test to make sure you are rested and mentally prepared.
- The most important thing to remember on taking the test is to answer the questions according to how PMI and the PMBOK would do things, not how you have done things or would do. Several people in our office failed because they answered questions based on their experiences and not according to the PMBOK process.
Syracuse University’s institute for veterans and military families
http://vets.syr.edu/
- It is easy to get the required real world hours of project management but documenting them in PMI format takes time in itself. There are several excel templates that you can use to ensure you have everything to document your experience accordingly.
- For study books you should read the PMBOK, but I would recommend only after doing the online courses or prep course to really understand what it is talking about. The book goes through project management according to PMI but does not explain the process itself.
- Several of us have used Rita Mulcahy’s PMP Exam Prep which is one of the more popular.
- The exam was just revised in Jan of 2016 so make sure you get the latest editions of they are out. Although a co-worker recently passed the new test with the old study book, as the only main difference was more focus on management and leadership, and an additional task or two.
- Do multiple online practice exams before the real exam. Once you average 70% to 75% on the practice tests you should be ready for the exam.
- The exam if 4 hours long, and allow you to go back and review questions you can mark for review. It is tiring test to make sure you are rested and mentally prepared.
- The most important thing to remember on taking the test is to answer the questions according to how PMI and the PMBOK would do things, not how you have done things or would do. Several people in our office failed because they answered questions based on their experiences and not according to the PMBOK process.
Syracuse University’s institute for veterans and military families
http://vets.syr.edu/
IVMF | Institute for Veterans and Military Families
The IVMF is the first interdisciplinary national institute in higher education focused on the social, economic, education and policy issues impacting veterans and their families post-service. Through our focus on veteran-facing programming, research and policy, employment and employer support, and community engagement, the institute provides in-depth analysis of the challenges facing the veteran community, captures best practices and serves as...
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Lt Col Jim Coe
SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL - Go to the PMI website (PMI.org). There's a Chapter finder function. I believe there's a PMI chapter in Tidewater. Go to a chapter meeting. Any of the Chapter officers should be able to help you get started.
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SFC (Join to see)
Lt Col Jim Coe - Sir, this is the best answer. This is exactly what I was looking for. I do have my LSS Green Belt and have been in conversation with a few colleagues who have PMP. In those conversations they kept steering me towards PMP. They are mostly contract civilians with some military background. I wanted to get a more military focused perspective. Thank you.
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Neither are required, but neither will hurt you either. As a PM of course I will gravitate towards the PMP certification. It all really depends on what you want to do. If you want to be a Project Manager, then go for the PMP. If you want to do something with process improvement then LSS might be a better option. Or the final option, do them both.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT David T. Thanks for your take on this. Funny you mention the final option as I am leaning toward both. I prefer the process improvement applications as that is what I have for the last few years. But, both will make me very marketable.
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SGT David T.
SFC (Join to see) - The certifications are good and all, but for the government, a college education preferably a Masters and experience is king.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT David T. You are correct. I am almost done with my BS and will probably start on Masters in '18.
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LSS lets you utilize WHAT you have and how to efficiently use your resources and cutting down on waste
PMP - From the looks of what MCPO (Join to see) stated, dives deep into project management and tasking your resources to do specific tasks.
PMP - From the looks of what MCPO (Join to see) stated, dives deep into project management and tasking your resources to do specific tasks.
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Vets2PM. They do a great job. I think its a great certification to get interview and position. Lean Six sigma. I might host a free online for I know people who make 80k and had minimal experience, but learned the basics. They then were mentored and developed, but still have a way to go....
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With either of them and as discussed in some of the comments, they're both starting or initial certifications. From what I've seen in the civilian market and now in gov't contracting, PMP is very desirable and is more wide ranged. Manufacturing is catching on, but very very slowly. LSS is definitely more for manufacturing, so if that's what you're looking for, go get it. I'd say getting both would be a good idea if for no other reason than to start "translating" how you think and operate in the military to how civilians think and talk. They will definitely give you a leg up initially in the application / interview process.
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