Posted on May 20, 2016
SPC Rory J. Mattheisen
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After numerous Civil Rights movements the people, especially those who claim to be constitutional/foundational loyalists, in America are still struggling with one of the first proclamations made by our founding fathers. The LGBT movement should not be necessary as it is covered by the D.O.I. and the Constitution. I find this to be disturbing, to say the least. What say you?
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The Founders had very different notions of equality than we do. Only white men were considered full persons under the law. Hence the need for re-interpretation in the face of social change. However, the Founders do seem to have been aware of their shortcomings and drafted documents amenable to the kind of change we've seen over the years. So, while people do still argue passionately for and against full inclusion, the foundational principles established back then endure.
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Just because specific groups claim to be for "equal rights," doesn't make that an honest assertion. Especially when they advocate for the lack of rights of others, or for special treatment (aka, unequal rights).
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Which groups are advocating for the lack of rights of others?
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SGT Jerrold Pesz
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All people may have been created equal in the eyes of God but people are not equal mentally, physically or morally. If you discount God the idea of equality is simply a dream created by man.
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SPC Rory J. Mattheisen
SPC Rory J. Mattheisen
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As is freedom
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SFC Motor Transport Operator
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because those dudes back then were not feminine enough LOL
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MSG Thomas Currie
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Perhaps because equal opportunities do not guarantee equal outcomes

Perhaps because equality is not the goal of any modern SJ activist

Perhaps because having been "created equal" in the eyes of the creator does not mean that everyone has identical abilities, talents, and interests.

Perhaps because victimhood has become a popular career choice
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SSG Donald Bramley
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Hold up, not so fast Rory, the LGBTQ+ movement IS, and WILL always be necessary "Sentinel", to stand down the intent, wherever, to challenge the EQUAL right to exist as in the Constitution of the United States of America.
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SP5 Rod Cross
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SCPO Jason McLaughlin
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Citizens United ended any hope of "all men are created equal" in America.
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1LT William Clardy
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SPC Rory J. Mattheisen, that oft-misunderstood bit of rhetoric from the Declaration of Independence was simply a declaration that all people are born with equal, inalienable rights. What each individual decides to do with those rights and whatever other talents and opportunities divine providence has given him or her will inevitably distinguish him or her from everybody else -- and no longer exactly equal, because we are each greater in some ways and lesser in others. Washington, Jefferson, and Arnold were not equals except in a very general sense. Would you really think of Martin Luther King as an equal of Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer?
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SPC Rory J. Mattheisen
SPC Rory J. Mattheisen
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1LT William Clardy - "When you were working for Fuddruckers, how would you have reacted to a group of kids coming in, lecturing you about the 82nd being full of nothing but pill-popping, baby-killing psychotics who deserve to have PTSD, now get us our d___ burgers and fries?"
I would have smiled and responded, "I was at the 101ST, Which burger would you like and how would you like it cooked?" I am happy to serve people, even idiots, if you have worked in the service industry then you know that most of the people you serve are just that. "No inalienable right to compel a business transaction" sounds like the same strategy employed in pre-1960's America to prevent "the coloreds" from having the same rights as whites.
I voted you down for your continued condescension, I am hoping you did not realize you are using 50 years old arguments that failed to oppress another group of Americans.
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1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
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My arguments are a lot older than 50 years, and they have served many more useful purposes than the malicious ones which they were also used to defend. For example, what do you think is the traditional legal justification has been for a bartender refusing to sell another drink or for a bouncer in a bar tossing an obnoxious drunk? Or for a diner manager ordering an argumentative could-be customer to stop harassing the waiter or waitress and leave? How about the once-ubiquitous "No shoes, no shirt, no service" sign?

Setting aside the LGBT question, SPC Rory J. Mattheisen, do you honestly believe that the law should empower any prospective bully to come into my place of business, deliberately pick a fight with me or my employees, and demand that we smile and ask if he wants fries with that? If a latter-day Archie Bunker came into your veteran-support company talking all sorts of trash about groups and causes you hold dear, should he then be entitled to stay and demand that he be heard as a member of your community?
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CPT John Sheridan
CPT John Sheridan
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1LT William Clardy - I do appreciate your original point above. In answer to your closing question, I would answer that yes, Martin Luther King, Jr., Ted Bundy, and Jeffery Dahmer are all equal. That is, equal before the law and that equality before the law is what landed Bundy in the electric chair and Dahmer in prison for the remainder of his life. King was unjustly denied this on several occasions and it took intervention by the Federal courts to restore it.

I do realize that is not what you meant. I just wanted to make a point with the counter. In all other things beyond equality before the law, I can't imagine that anyone would see any equivalence there. I certainly wouldn't.
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1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
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Actually, CPT John Sheridan, you really did exemplify what I meant. All three are entitled to equal treatment by the law, but they are decidedly unequal in terms of how welcome they would be at my dinner table (and, I suspect, at yours as well) -- and that bias is our prerogative .
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
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SPC Rory J. Mattheisen Politically correct B.S.
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