Posted on Apr 19, 2017
Why are officers recognized with awards more than enlisted?
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It seems to me that officers are recogized far more often then enlisted soldiers. I mean an officer and junior enlisted could do the same exact thing, or an enlisted could do more then an officer and chances are the officer will be given a higher award. Why? I have been in for almost 8 years and only have 1 AAM which is my only actual award.
Awards
Officers
Enlisted
Recognition
Fairness
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 577
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Man, there are a LOT of officers responding with their thoughts on why the enlisted ranks don't get the amount or level of awards that officers get.
And most of these answers are hilarious. But only because I'm a RETIRED MSG and it doesn't matter to me anymore.
There is an unwritten law in the Army that the higher the rank you are, the higher the award you get for doing a thing. and I am not whining, it really doesn't matter to this retired Soldier so I am speaking objectively.
I have been on the receiving end of not getting the award that an officer who did the same thing DID get, I have put in Soldiers for Awards and seen officers that I put in get upgraded while enlisted (especially lower enlisted) get downgraded for THE SAME ACTIONS.
And when I have mentioned these discrepancies, I have been told "that must just be your unit," "that's probably not what happened," or my favorite, "you don't understand the dynamics of what happens at higher levels."
I WAS the higher damned level. I ran a Batalion and a Brigade S2 Section. And I repeatedly watched as enlisted Soldiers got awarded lesser awards than officers, often for events in which the enlisted Soldier did something well beyond the officer's actions.
This is an Army-wide issue, and one that has been going on for decades. In 1993 as a Private I got an Certificate of Achievement for beating the best time on the "Green Hell" obstacle course in Fort Sherman Panama. My partner, a junior NCO, got an AAM. Later I found out that two officers, a 1st Lieutenant and a Captain, recieved ARCOMs for getting the "best time," which wasn't actually the best time but what translated to the "best time for a pair of officers," which they happened to leave off of the award citation.
In Iraq in 2009 I put a couple of Soldiers in for ARCOMs for their actions in the Intel field. I put our OIC in for an ARCOM as well, because I knew that putting him in for anything less would be a ska in the face that would cause all of my Soldiers' Awards to get slapped down. Our OIC had only been with us for bout a third of the deployment, prior to that we were without an OIC, having myself and one other NCO to run things. Our OIC was awarded a Bronze Star, and most of my Soldiers received AAMs.
I and most NCOs have long understood that the system is INCREDIBLY flawed, and that one just needs to Lee their teeth together and grind it out because the people who would CHANGE the flawed system are the same people who currently BENEFIT from the flawed system - namely, officers. and it's not ONLY officers; Senior NCOs are often given awards that are WILDLY out of proportion for the actions they have taken. Not too long ago a 1SG got an ARCOM for reporting Soldiers who were complaining ONLINE about their leadership. This, to me, says that her "trolling" of these Soldiers is equal in merit to the Army as my actions in COMBAT that merited an ARCOM. Which is, obviously, fucking RIDICULOUS.
I am not trying to offer any type of fix for this, I am simply stating the facts: officers (and to an extent senior NCOs) receive preferential treatment when it comes to awards. Anyone who tells you different is either delusional, bullshitting, or an officer who is trying to defend a flawed system.
And that's okay. My DD-214 is two pages long with all of the damned awards and decorations I received by being in the wrong place at the wrong time for the Army over three different decades, and I've found that once you're out not a single one of them matters.
So drive on, Airborne. Huaa?
And most of these answers are hilarious. But only because I'm a RETIRED MSG and it doesn't matter to me anymore.
There is an unwritten law in the Army that the higher the rank you are, the higher the award you get for doing a thing. and I am not whining, it really doesn't matter to this retired Soldier so I am speaking objectively.
I have been on the receiving end of not getting the award that an officer who did the same thing DID get, I have put in Soldiers for Awards and seen officers that I put in get upgraded while enlisted (especially lower enlisted) get downgraded for THE SAME ACTIONS.
And when I have mentioned these discrepancies, I have been told "that must just be your unit," "that's probably not what happened," or my favorite, "you don't understand the dynamics of what happens at higher levels."
I WAS the higher damned level. I ran a Batalion and a Brigade S2 Section. And I repeatedly watched as enlisted Soldiers got awarded lesser awards than officers, often for events in which the enlisted Soldier did something well beyond the officer's actions.
This is an Army-wide issue, and one that has been going on for decades. In 1993 as a Private I got an Certificate of Achievement for beating the best time on the "Green Hell" obstacle course in Fort Sherman Panama. My partner, a junior NCO, got an AAM. Later I found out that two officers, a 1st Lieutenant and a Captain, recieved ARCOMs for getting the "best time," which wasn't actually the best time but what translated to the "best time for a pair of officers," which they happened to leave off of the award citation.
In Iraq in 2009 I put a couple of Soldiers in for ARCOMs for their actions in the Intel field. I put our OIC in for an ARCOM as well, because I knew that putting him in for anything less would be a ska in the face that would cause all of my Soldiers' Awards to get slapped down. Our OIC had only been with us for bout a third of the deployment, prior to that we were without an OIC, having myself and one other NCO to run things. Our OIC was awarded a Bronze Star, and most of my Soldiers received AAMs.
I and most NCOs have long understood that the system is INCREDIBLY flawed, and that one just needs to Lee their teeth together and grind it out because the people who would CHANGE the flawed system are the same people who currently BENEFIT from the flawed system - namely, officers. and it's not ONLY officers; Senior NCOs are often given awards that are WILDLY out of proportion for the actions they have taken. Not too long ago a 1SG got an ARCOM for reporting Soldiers who were complaining ONLINE about their leadership. This, to me, says that her "trolling" of these Soldiers is equal in merit to the Army as my actions in COMBAT that merited an ARCOM. Which is, obviously, fucking RIDICULOUS.
I am not trying to offer any type of fix for this, I am simply stating the facts: officers (and to an extent senior NCOs) receive preferential treatment when it comes to awards. Anyone who tells you different is either delusional, bullshitting, or an officer who is trying to defend a flawed system.
And that's okay. My DD-214 is two pages long with all of the damned awards and decorations I received by being in the wrong place at the wrong time for the Army over three different decades, and I've found that once you're out not a single one of them matters.
So drive on, Airborne. Huaa?
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1LT Peter Suedfeld
CPT Jerry Lucas - A relevant historical fact might be that Eisenhower never personally participated in combat.
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SFC Lyle Green
1LT Peter Suedfeld - Combat!? North Africa, Italy, Assistant to McArthur in Pacific, etc.etc. The Supreme Allied Commander of all forces in The EU theater, who in their right mind would risk this tactical genius in mere combat? A fool. His decision, his tact, his "combat ability, knowledge, and execution of same, defeated the NAZI of Hitlers insanity in EU, no other could have, Montgomery tried...got slaughtered in his big idea of Operation Market Garden, Cohen, and many other failures. All due to pressure on Ike to allow him do so, against Ike's will.
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A very reasonable question with a very simple answer. Junior officers, the ones in closet contact with enlisted personnel aren't very adept leaders. They are lucky to know how to do the simplest tasks of leadership let alone something sophisticated like recommending personnel for awards and decorations. Their immediate superiors aren't much better. However senior officers who are well aware of the significance that decorations can have on a military career rarely witness the accomplishments of the troops as individuals. What's the solution? If you witness an act of valor or a significant accomplishment that you feel is worthy of recognition, bring it to the attention of your immediate superior. Suggest a that they submit a recommendation for recognition if they're too dense to take the hint. Write it up yourself if you have to. Then hope that someone does the same for you when you deserve it. If anyone gives you trouble for following my advice, refer them to me.
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SFC Robert Walton
CPT Jack Durish Nice comment Sir but not much more than an excuse.
I could sit here and tell you many time me and other should have gotten awards down through the years that they never received. There was paperwork for awards sent in by the COC and nothing happened or it was simply changed to an award for a Junior Officer was in many cases Not even involved except being the PLT LDR. I was a range NCO for a Weapons Qualification Range. The LT my Plt. Ldr. Was the OIC of the range did NOT even attend the range. I ended up running the whole range Got nothing The LT. when he arrived back to the Unit got and Award for the range. I didn't even get a Letter of Appreciation.
The paperwork was submitted According to the COC. Nothing came back. My whole career Many others enlisted were the same. After 22.5 Years i Retired At Division Because the BN. That i set a 1SG seat for Did Nothing. DiV. said i was getting a MSM for a retirement award. Amazing they handed me the medal and Ribbon and NO ORDERS. The Highest award i got from the Military was Retirement and a 2 1/2 ton truck load of letters of appreciation. The reasoning is Military wide. NCO's were told and drilled to put Soldiers in for awards. Only 1% of those that i put Soldiers in for were ever awarded.
At this point i am happy with what i got.
But i would like the real truth as to why it is that way Not just and excuse.
I could sit here and tell you many time me and other should have gotten awards down through the years that they never received. There was paperwork for awards sent in by the COC and nothing happened or it was simply changed to an award for a Junior Officer was in many cases Not even involved except being the PLT LDR. I was a range NCO for a Weapons Qualification Range. The LT my Plt. Ldr. Was the OIC of the range did NOT even attend the range. I ended up running the whole range Got nothing The LT. when he arrived back to the Unit got and Award for the range. I didn't even get a Letter of Appreciation.
The paperwork was submitted According to the COC. Nothing came back. My whole career Many others enlisted were the same. After 22.5 Years i Retired At Division Because the BN. That i set a 1SG seat for Did Nothing. DiV. said i was getting a MSM for a retirement award. Amazing they handed me the medal and Ribbon and NO ORDERS. The Highest award i got from the Military was Retirement and a 2 1/2 ton truck load of letters of appreciation. The reasoning is Military wide. NCO's were told and drilled to put Soldiers in for awards. Only 1% of those that i put Soldiers in for were ever awarded.
At this point i am happy with what i got.
But i would like the real truth as to why it is that way Not just and excuse.
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CPT Jack Durish
SFC Robert Walton - I'm sorry you read my response as an excuse. It certainly wasn't intended as one. Look again without the blinders of your personal experience. I simply said what I observed.
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CPT Jack Durish
SSG Jack Simpson - Certainly, most NCOs felt it was their duty to train their butter bars to be officers, but they aren't qualified. There is a chasm between officers and enlisted that neither side is prepared to appreciate. However, it is reasonable that NCOs teach their butter bars how to be soldiers/sailors/airmen/Marines. Think about the environments in which officers train. Is there any similarity between a military academy and the military? Well, they do wear uniforms. How about colleges and universities where ROTC graduates "learn to be officers?" Okay, there is an occasional enlisted member who gains entrance to a military academy or who graduates from an ROTC program and returns to the service as an officer. I doubt an NCO is required to "teach them the ropes." And, of course there are the Mustangs. But that's another story...
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CPT Jack Durish
MSG (Join to see) - Afghanistan came long after my service. I hope I qualified my opinion as pertinent to my time and experience. It would be nice to think that the services learned to train their officers better. However, given the fact that this complaint seems current, it may be that some fail the course in "taking care of subordinates."
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Don't get wrapped around the axle on awards, sometimes there is not much rhyme or reason. Do you best always, I never worried about any awards. End of tour before PCS orders is a give away award in my book and does not occur that much in the Marine Corps. We also don't give promotion point for them either. Yes, looks nice on your uniform but you evals and performance are what count in my book. Semper fi and keep charging.
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PO1 Craig Anthony
Your eval system was probably tightly adhered to compared the navy, were slags would get 4.0, forcing the worthy to get 4.0, even if they were only a 3.8.
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CPT Jack Durish
SFC James Welch - I had a Master Sergeant in my command when I was stationed in Hawaii. He only wore one ribbon, a Silver Star with an OLC. Of course I was curious and pulled his 201 file to see what was going on. The abbreviated version of the story (I've posted the full thing in another thread somewhere on RP) is that he lied about his age (13) to enlist for WWI and being large for his age, got away with it. He mustered out immediately following the war but reenlisted for WWII (no lying needed). Same for Korea. When he tried to enlist for Vietnam, he had to contact a very senior officer to pull some strings and he did a tour there. Retired with 20 years active duty, every day in wartime/combat service (except Vietnam - no combat for him there). And yes, he had plenty of awards and decorations. Would've looked like a potentate if he wore them all. The two Silver Stars he wore (he had others) were awarded by John J. Pershing.
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