Posted on Mar 4, 2019
Why are there transgender veterans who support banning currently serving transgender service members but won't discuss it?
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Been finding a recent string of self identified transgender veterans on mainstream social media who've uploaded personal opinions about the SCOTUS decision to stay the current or "future" policy decision to ban and seperate transgender personnel from service and continued service, and are in support of banning trans Americans from service.
Hopefully I can get an actual conversation going on, but for some reason when I said how I was in Bagram, AFG (at the time of posting, I've just recently redeployed home) and would love a further explanation they've all be silent. I love to hear negative beliefs and opinions about why a whole population should be removed and banned from service beyond "they're icky and weird and confused". When I get to hear facts on why women, HIV+, and even Non-American citizens shouldn't be authorized to serve; I get facts and discussions. For the trans argument it's just "gross, icky and confused".
Any thoughts on the matter?
Hopefully I can get an actual conversation going on, but for some reason when I said how I was in Bagram, AFG (at the time of posting, I've just recently redeployed home) and would love a further explanation they've all be silent. I love to hear negative beliefs and opinions about why a whole population should be removed and banned from service beyond "they're icky and weird and confused". When I get to hear facts on why women, HIV+, and even Non-American citizens shouldn't be authorized to serve; I get facts and discussions. For the trans argument it's just "gross, icky and confused".
Any thoughts on the matter?
Deployment
National Security
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Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 35
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I'm an isolated dunce that knows nothing of such matters, but I'll throw my 2 cents in even though I'm probably going to regret everything I write here. Don't get too mad at me, I'm just thinking here. I don't know if transgenderism is a mental illness. However, long ago society burned fiercely independent women for being witches. Society also had some idea that skull sizes proved some races were inferior to whites based on scientific evidence. Society also viewed being gay as a sickness which could be cured with religion or an old fashion beat down. Society also thought frontal lobotomies and shock treatments were a good idea to treat people with mental illness.
Anyway, integration has always been an issue for the military. Previously, a solider had to follow (and respect) military history, tradition and the decisions of the officers appointed over them. It's often referred to as the brainwashing of the military. Hence the rigid rules and ideologies that perpetuate them, thus creating a fundamental structure that frames the basis for discrimination, and the opposition that follows. (Why? Because that's the way it's always been done!) However, this framework has proven to be effective in creating a cohesive group of individuals from different backgrounds and uniting them for a common goal. Unfortunately, it is specific in nature and has been historically written from the white male perspective. It took a long time for African slaves (and other minorities) to earn citizenship let alone the right to formally fight in US Army as equals. It also took a long time for women to earn the right to wear the uniform and they were placed into a Nurse corps initially and had to bear a lot of scrutiny and humiliation. (Or maybe they were being too sensitive? Or maybe it was the military who was being too insensitive).
Historically, transgenders are fairly new in the spotlight (they have been around forever but hidden) and they aren't part of the overall picture. Historically, boys are boys and girls are girls. Transgenderism break those rules and separates the sex, gender and identity roles/expectations. History is easy to repeat, but hard to break and very slow to adapt or change.
Traditionally, the military has set principles and values that build upon the current ideologies of the state/nation it protects. Military tradition is a rigid wall that separates those who served from everyone else. It's in the creeds we memorize, the uniforms we wear and all the various ceremonies we perform. Transgenderism isn't part of military tradition and the idea scares a lot people. Because they feel like they are losing something in return, or the value of tradition has been reduced in some way.
Lastly, soldiers follow and carry out the orders of the officers appointed over them. In other words it's the law! I'm not sure if transgenderism is even mentioned in the UCMJ, but if the top brass (or supreme court) says so then what am I as a soldier supposed to do? This also creates conflict between soldiers if someone they feel is disobeying a lawful order from a senior officer. Soldiers have been known in the past to take the law in their own hands based on some feeling or idea they're doing the right thing.
As for myself I'm not really sure what's right or wrong in handling this issue. I do know, no matter which side I stand on I'm going to make enemies regardless. It's a shame that something like this could divide us and make us hate each other. Remember what happened to Viccky Gutierrez last year in 2018?
Anyway, integration has always been an issue for the military. Previously, a solider had to follow (and respect) military history, tradition and the decisions of the officers appointed over them. It's often referred to as the brainwashing of the military. Hence the rigid rules and ideologies that perpetuate them, thus creating a fundamental structure that frames the basis for discrimination, and the opposition that follows. (Why? Because that's the way it's always been done!) However, this framework has proven to be effective in creating a cohesive group of individuals from different backgrounds and uniting them for a common goal. Unfortunately, it is specific in nature and has been historically written from the white male perspective. It took a long time for African slaves (and other minorities) to earn citizenship let alone the right to formally fight in US Army as equals. It also took a long time for women to earn the right to wear the uniform and they were placed into a Nurse corps initially and had to bear a lot of scrutiny and humiliation. (Or maybe they were being too sensitive? Or maybe it was the military who was being too insensitive).
Historically, transgenders are fairly new in the spotlight (they have been around forever but hidden) and they aren't part of the overall picture. Historically, boys are boys and girls are girls. Transgenderism break those rules and separates the sex, gender and identity roles/expectations. History is easy to repeat, but hard to break and very slow to adapt or change.
Traditionally, the military has set principles and values that build upon the current ideologies of the state/nation it protects. Military tradition is a rigid wall that separates those who served from everyone else. It's in the creeds we memorize, the uniforms we wear and all the various ceremonies we perform. Transgenderism isn't part of military tradition and the idea scares a lot people. Because they feel like they are losing something in return, or the value of tradition has been reduced in some way.
Lastly, soldiers follow and carry out the orders of the officers appointed over them. In other words it's the law! I'm not sure if transgenderism is even mentioned in the UCMJ, but if the top brass (or supreme court) says so then what am I as a soldier supposed to do? This also creates conflict between soldiers if someone they feel is disobeying a lawful order from a senior officer. Soldiers have been known in the past to take the law in their own hands based on some feeling or idea they're doing the right thing.
As for myself I'm not really sure what's right or wrong in handling this issue. I do know, no matter which side I stand on I'm going to make enemies regardless. It's a shame that something like this could divide us and make us hate each other. Remember what happened to Viccky Gutierrez last year in 2018?
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As to why a trans individual would want to ban trans from serving while they serve is beyond my reasoning - sounds like something a crazy person would say.
However I feel its more than just irrational thoughts - maybe the result of personal experience? As to why one wouldn't want to talk about it - the same reason people in the military don't like to be asked if they killed someone or talk about their combat experience - its not always a positive experience or easy for the audience to understand without having experienced it.
However as not being trans I really have no clue and can only offer speculations.
However I feel its more than just irrational thoughts - maybe the result of personal experience? As to why one wouldn't want to talk about it - the same reason people in the military don't like to be asked if they killed someone or talk about their combat experience - its not always a positive experience or easy for the audience to understand without having experienced it.
However as not being trans I really have no clue and can only offer speculations.
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To understand this issue better give a listen to Whodini’s The Freaks Come Out at Night.
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SFC (Join to see)
Thank you MSG Frank Kapaun! I'll give it a look though this afternoon. Conducting reverse SRP after this break.
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I just read an article by a medical psychologist in London England. The article was In title "Transgendered that want to revert back to their birth sex Can find no help and are branded traitors by the transgender homosexual community."
Many transgender people in the age range of 20 to 27 years old are having 2nd thoughts about their decision To be transgender or that had reassignment surgery. They all want to revert back to their normal birth sex but when they let it be known that they wish to revert back no doctor Tsai colleges no agency wants to help them for fear of the political Backlash. So now these people have nowhere to turn and many are committing suicide because they feel there is no hope and no one wants to help them. What I found interesting in the article was this psychology said she discovered that 70% of transgender people have a mild form or worse of autism. So to add some insight into the transgender question in the military if that is true that 70% of you have autism then yes you should be banned from serving in the military . That is one of the reasons attributed to the high rate of suicide amongst Transgender people. I personally do not think anyone that is transgender is evil in and of themselves I just think societee has really confuse a lot of young people and the failure of parents and home to let their children know that you are born male and female that's all. I don't think parents really take the time to talk to their children and if the child is confused about the bird sex it's up to the parent to straighten them out and they help them see through the confusion. This is what happens there's no spiritual training and the home regardless of what 1 may Believe no parent will personally teach their child to be evil and have no Morals at all when entering into societee. There the basic level of goodness and decency and empathy are parents and still in their children at least there used to be. To Allow your child to enter into societee unarmed spiritually is akin to suicide. So one solution is for the rest of the military that is not transgender or homosexuals when you find out someone is transgender and they expressed to you that they no longer wish to be help them out as much as you can if they've come to the realization that what they decided to do was wrong fast a first step in the right direction and we should do all we can to help them back on the road to recovery and sanity then they will be eligible to serve in the military.
Many transgender people in the age range of 20 to 27 years old are having 2nd thoughts about their decision To be transgender or that had reassignment surgery. They all want to revert back to their normal birth sex but when they let it be known that they wish to revert back no doctor Tsai colleges no agency wants to help them for fear of the political Backlash. So now these people have nowhere to turn and many are committing suicide because they feel there is no hope and no one wants to help them. What I found interesting in the article was this psychology said she discovered that 70% of transgender people have a mild form or worse of autism. So to add some insight into the transgender question in the military if that is true that 70% of you have autism then yes you should be banned from serving in the military . That is one of the reasons attributed to the high rate of suicide amongst Transgender people. I personally do not think anyone that is transgender is evil in and of themselves I just think societee has really confuse a lot of young people and the failure of parents and home to let their children know that you are born male and female that's all. I don't think parents really take the time to talk to their children and if the child is confused about the bird sex it's up to the parent to straighten them out and they help them see through the confusion. This is what happens there's no spiritual training and the home regardless of what 1 may Believe no parent will personally teach their child to be evil and have no Morals at all when entering into societee. There the basic level of goodness and decency and empathy are parents and still in their children at least there used to be. To Allow your child to enter into societee unarmed spiritually is akin to suicide. So one solution is for the rest of the military that is not transgender or homosexuals when you find out someone is transgender and they expressed to you that they no longer wish to be help them out as much as you can if they've come to the realization that what they decided to do was wrong fast a first step in the right direction and we should do all we can to help them back on the road to recovery and sanity then they will be eligible to serve in the military.
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LCpl Cody Collins
SSgt Addison R. research the arrival for yourself, before you comment. Plus I stated that what I said is my comment on the issue in hindsight of the article I read. You are free to have your own thoughts, but you are not free to tell anyone to keep their comments to themselves.
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LCpl Cody Collins
LCpl Cody Collins children please stop and move on to some other issue, like cleaning your rifles.
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My understanding is that 80% of men who transgender to a woman end up committing suicide.
The entire subject speaks to gender identity as a mental health issue, not a military readiness issue. The military recruits physically, mentally and emotionally healthy people. Then these people are developed to their potential as members of task-groups expected to engage in mortal combat for the purpose of winning any armed conflict that the Executive Branch or Legislative Branch authorizes via Statutes.
Transgenderism is not a military capability. The subject belongs in civilian mental health institutions, not on in the Barracks or in a firefight.
The entire subject speaks to gender identity as a mental health issue, not a military readiness issue. The military recruits physically, mentally and emotionally healthy people. Then these people are developed to their potential as members of task-groups expected to engage in mortal combat for the purpose of winning any armed conflict that the Executive Branch or Legislative Branch authorizes via Statutes.
Transgenderism is not a military capability. The subject belongs in civilian mental health institutions, not on in the Barracks or in a firefight.
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The obvious has been missed here. You have no authoritative proof that the individuals speaking on Facebook are legitimately Trans and Veterans or even US citizens. Disregard that if you physically have their ID and DD-214 or served with them personally.
We have extensive evidence regarding the active manipulation of public sentiment by bad actors in several nations. It comes straight out of psy-ops playbooks from Russian Intelligence services as well as Iranian and N. Korean presumed operational tactics. Soldiers are being briefed on this trend and advised not to believe anything that cannot be verified by multiple neutral sources(Not Daily KOS or Breitbart for example).
The objective is to create or inflame emotional hot issues that divide us as a people. A great way to do that is to spread absurd proposals and statements on both sides of the political spectrum. They can rely on the notion that we will choose loyalty to a political party over loyalty to our brothers and sisters as American citizens.
We are under attack as a democratic republic(yes, we are both by design) and it is Un-American to allow political issues to come before repelling our attackers.
Those annoying opinions you read about from the opposition are often held by very, very few people. Someone clever uses social media, and a small number of foreign controlled agents in American media, to blow the issue out of proportion to make you blind with rage and decimate our united front. It is working all too well.
A decade ago you would have thrown a sock party for an openly gay ”battle buddy”. But now many of us have served in combat with those same people and know that they are no different than anyone else in the uniform. They have flaws and strengths. Some are weak, some strong. Many soldiers have medical dependencies that cause problems in deployments but it gets figured out. Not to mention there are quite a few non-deployment roles to fill. The issue is one of acceptable policies and it will be handled professionally. You will see transgender soldiers officially embraced at some point. It will happen when legal language is put in place that provides an ironclad contract protecting the military and VA from any costs for gender reassignment or maintenance.
THAT is the only legitimate issue we should be discussing about those willing to put their lives on the line for you and the Constitution.
We have extensive evidence regarding the active manipulation of public sentiment by bad actors in several nations. It comes straight out of psy-ops playbooks from Russian Intelligence services as well as Iranian and N. Korean presumed operational tactics. Soldiers are being briefed on this trend and advised not to believe anything that cannot be verified by multiple neutral sources(Not Daily KOS or Breitbart for example).
The objective is to create or inflame emotional hot issues that divide us as a people. A great way to do that is to spread absurd proposals and statements on both sides of the political spectrum. They can rely on the notion that we will choose loyalty to a political party over loyalty to our brothers and sisters as American citizens.
We are under attack as a democratic republic(yes, we are both by design) and it is Un-American to allow political issues to come before repelling our attackers.
Those annoying opinions you read about from the opposition are often held by very, very few people. Someone clever uses social media, and a small number of foreign controlled agents in American media, to blow the issue out of proportion to make you blind with rage and decimate our united front. It is working all too well.
A decade ago you would have thrown a sock party for an openly gay ”battle buddy”. But now many of us have served in combat with those same people and know that they are no different than anyone else in the uniform. They have flaws and strengths. Some are weak, some strong. Many soldiers have medical dependencies that cause problems in deployments but it gets figured out. Not to mention there are quite a few non-deployment roles to fill. The issue is one of acceptable policies and it will be handled professionally. You will see transgender soldiers officially embraced at some point. It will happen when legal language is put in place that provides an ironclad contract protecting the military and VA from any costs for gender reassignment or maintenance.
THAT is the only legitimate issue we should be discussing about those willing to put their lives on the line for you and the Constitution.
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Can’t address the trans or HIV issues but I believe you’re wrong about non-citizens serving. Non-citizens have been allowed to enlist since I served more than 50 years ago. At that time, serving time in the military shortened the waiting period to apply for citizenship. I am fluent in German and recall one of my DI’s dragging me over to some other platoon to translate for another German who had some trouble with English (I was already a naturalized citizen). The other guy told me he enlisted so that he could become a citizen faster.
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Seriously the whole transgender issue is ridiculous. The military is an organization designed around a single concept - the efficient and devastating application of force against an enemy of this nation with the single goal of winning a conflict as quickly and with as few casualties and lowest cost possible. As such, one of the primary considerations is that the people in the military must be healthy, intelligent enough to train quickly, mentally and emotionally stable and finally without debilitating medical/mental/emotional problems that require anything more than the absolute minimum of care. This is why personnel are recruited in their youth and retired while still young by civilian standards.
Transgendered or about to be transgendered personnel are anything BUT emotionally/mentally/physically stable. The potential costs for maintenance and upkeep in terms of medical care simply do not merit the dubious value of such personnel. A female transgendered to male will never be as strong as a normal male and a male transgendered to female will also never be a normal functioning female. As to the argument that the AHA and other organizations have now decided that the desire to change ones gender is not a mental illness, I simply disagree. I have read, though I cant remember the exact source and its not worth my time to convince the sceptic - that even those who do successfully complete their transition have a significantly higher rate of suicide than non-transgendered personnel. I am not surprised at this - imagine having gone through all of the pain, cost and endless treatments only to find that regardless how authentic the appearance - one simply is not nor ever truly will be what they have tried to become.
While I feel sorry for these people, I cannot think of a single special talent, skill, attribute or strength they bring to the military family, nor am I convinced that they can or do actually function at the same level as their peers (of whatever gender they think they belong to). So, in the end it all boils down to a single question; what value do the transgendered bring to our warfighting capability that will outweigh their negative impact? The answer to the question is simply none. This is NOT a social experiment or a refuge for the socially challenged, this is a warfighting organization with a single purpose.
A final note here, all too often I see folks post comments such as mine and then get called transphobic or racist or whatever. Phobia refers to fear, I have nothing to fear from these folks, nor do I harbor any hatred for them; if anything I feel pity for them and wish there were some effective treatment for their problem. Please save the pithy comments and your reputation by not using the phobic label.
My regards...
Transgendered or about to be transgendered personnel are anything BUT emotionally/mentally/physically stable. The potential costs for maintenance and upkeep in terms of medical care simply do not merit the dubious value of such personnel. A female transgendered to male will never be as strong as a normal male and a male transgendered to female will also never be a normal functioning female. As to the argument that the AHA and other organizations have now decided that the desire to change ones gender is not a mental illness, I simply disagree. I have read, though I cant remember the exact source and its not worth my time to convince the sceptic - that even those who do successfully complete their transition have a significantly higher rate of suicide than non-transgendered personnel. I am not surprised at this - imagine having gone through all of the pain, cost and endless treatments only to find that regardless how authentic the appearance - one simply is not nor ever truly will be what they have tried to become.
While I feel sorry for these people, I cannot think of a single special talent, skill, attribute or strength they bring to the military family, nor am I convinced that they can or do actually function at the same level as their peers (of whatever gender they think they belong to). So, in the end it all boils down to a single question; what value do the transgendered bring to our warfighting capability that will outweigh their negative impact? The answer to the question is simply none. This is NOT a social experiment or a refuge for the socially challenged, this is a warfighting organization with a single purpose.
A final note here, all too often I see folks post comments such as mine and then get called transphobic or racist or whatever. Phobia refers to fear, I have nothing to fear from these folks, nor do I harbor any hatred for them; if anything I feel pity for them and wish there were some effective treatment for their problem. Please save the pithy comments and your reputation by not using the phobic label.
My regards...
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