Posted on Apr 3, 2016
Why can't Soldiers roll up their sleeves in uniform?
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 30
The first and most important why is:
DA PAM 670-1, 4-8(d) - Sleeves will be worn down at all times(not rolled or cuffed). The sleeve cuffs on the combat uniform coat are not authorized to be rolled inside the coat.
The second and debatable why is:
Sleeves protect against sunburn and insect bites.
Having come from the Air Force in the late 90's I enjoyed the flexibility of rolling up the sleeves in the Oklahoma summers. When I switched to the Army, I found myself in flight school at Ft. Rucker Alabama in the middle of the summer and decided to roll my sleeves up. (They do not go through all of the intricacies of AR or DA PAM 670-1 in Army Basic) So I just rolled up my sleeves and headed out to formation. Everyone looked at me like I had a penis growing out of my forehead. However, since I had already made a name for myself as the guy that came from the Air Force and still doesn't know shit about the Army, they just laughed and yanked my sleeves down.
This is just another example of how the Army does not allow the lowest level NCO's to make common sense choices for their teams, squads, or platoons. The Army does not trust anyone to think outside of the box, they train their NCO's to be inflexible robots, and force them to read and adhere to every reg by the letter. (See post about PT test scoring whether someone can stand up after three push ups if they get a cramp or need to go potty) This isn't a hit on NCO's, but a hit on how Army doctrine prevents NCO's from being all they can be. I would have never made it a day in the Army as an NCO. They don't let NCO's think and they force Commissioned officers to be responsible for every mistake grown adults (aka E-1 thru E-4) make. Warrant Officer Corps (I refuse to accept the term Cohort) is the last bastion of common sense left in the Army.
DA PAM 670-1, 4-8(d) - Sleeves will be worn down at all times(not rolled or cuffed). The sleeve cuffs on the combat uniform coat are not authorized to be rolled inside the coat.
The second and debatable why is:
Sleeves protect against sunburn and insect bites.
Having come from the Air Force in the late 90's I enjoyed the flexibility of rolling up the sleeves in the Oklahoma summers. When I switched to the Army, I found myself in flight school at Ft. Rucker Alabama in the middle of the summer and decided to roll my sleeves up. (They do not go through all of the intricacies of AR or DA PAM 670-1 in Army Basic) So I just rolled up my sleeves and headed out to formation. Everyone looked at me like I had a penis growing out of my forehead. However, since I had already made a name for myself as the guy that came from the Air Force and still doesn't know shit about the Army, they just laughed and yanked my sleeves down.
This is just another example of how the Army does not allow the lowest level NCO's to make common sense choices for their teams, squads, or platoons. The Army does not trust anyone to think outside of the box, they train their NCO's to be inflexible robots, and force them to read and adhere to every reg by the letter. (See post about PT test scoring whether someone can stand up after three push ups if they get a cramp or need to go potty) This isn't a hit on NCO's, but a hit on how Army doctrine prevents NCO's from being all they can be. I would have never made it a day in the Army as an NCO. They don't let NCO's think and they force Commissioned officers to be responsible for every mistake grown adults (aka E-1 thru E-4) make. Warrant Officer Corps (I refuse to accept the term Cohort) is the last bastion of common sense left in the Army.
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SFC (Join to see)
"No one is more professional than I" unless somebody on the Internet says overbearing doctrine prevents me from doing my job.
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CW4 (Join to see)
SFC Don Ward - Thank you for your words of wisdom. Every WO should have a senior NCO like you to help guide them in their career. Department of the Army should hit you up more often and get your ideas on how to properly reduce the force. You might want to brush up on your generational knowledge. Not only do I not fall into the accepted definition of a millennial, but there are likely no CW4s in the Army that would fall into that definition either aside from the rare high school to flight school WO that successfully promoted on their first look. Keep up the good work!
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MSG James Devereaux
Being that you are NOT an Army NCO, I don’t think you are in a position to point out your perceived faults. Not only are you undermining the corps especially to our younger soldiers but you aren’t representing the air force or warrant officer corps very well. Just so you can be better informed, that specific uniform is not designed to be rolled up, if you needed to be in a short sleeve uniform then your unit senior NCOs would have recommended that it be changed. Sometimes there are safety factors that are not being considered. I.E, sunburns, insects, or the fact that a rolled sleeve constricts around the bicep (usually), and prevents good blood flow and air circulation. A rolled sleeve is actually much hotter and very uncomfortable.
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SSG Jess Peters
In my time of service 65 to 85 it was authorized to roll sleeves. It was a none issue. Why it changed made no sense to me.
Same with doing away with the Khaki class B uniform. It was comfortable, had a choice of long or short sleeve, plus looked sharp with blouse boots. That uniform should make a comeback as well.
Same with doing away with the Khaki class B uniform. It was comfortable, had a choice of long or short sleeve, plus looked sharp with blouse boots. That uniform should make a comeback as well.
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When the Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps all allow their sleeves to be rolled under certain conditions, I have a hard time buying any of the reasons I've heard.
My guess, when the transition from BDU to ACU occurred, whoever was in charge didn't like rolled sleeves.
My guess, when the transition from BDU to ACU occurred, whoever was in charge didn't like rolled sleeves.
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Sgt (Join to see)
(USMC) The tucking of the cuff, what we all love doing on deployments, isn't supposed to be authorized but were deployed so no one really cares. In garrison until recently we were sleeves up or down based on when we reset our clocks, now it's command discression though just recently.
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CPT Martin Krievs
Back in the late 60’s the Army OK’d rolled up sleeves and as Adjutant of my small unit I was one of the first to get word. Got the CO’s blessing, rolled up my sleeves and headed to the Schwaebisch Gmuend Officers’ Club. Got strange looks from the Pershing FA guys and even had an argument with an O4 from the 56th Bde Hq. A few days later they, too were allowed rolll up sleeves.
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1SG (Join to see) unless, the regulation changed,I know you couldn't. Back when it was BDUs you could roll up sleeves, until the ACUs came out in 2005.
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SSG Kevin Wells
I recall some discussions back in the bud days, of a theory that sleeves down keeps one cooler b/c it keeps the sweat from evaporating so quick. That said, my 1st Sgt back then, did not allow sleeves up b/c he had had a run with skin cancer. When the ACUS came out, the location of the sleeve pockets and velcro no longer allowed a tight roll either. I think somewhere in there lies the true reason.
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SPC Eric Cunningham
Poor theory - evaporation is literally how sweat (or water) keeps us cool. The phase change takes a lot of heat energy and takes it from our skin. By preventing evaporation, that heat is not transferred from us, but more from the atmosphere. Science.
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CPT (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) - I just recall my BDUs being stuck on my arms. I had to have help to take off my top. Some guys got them alter to have a short sleeve top and cut out the extra material. I would have to do that.
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SSG Jason Penn
CPT (Join to see) - Unfortunately that is a No-Go sir. Altering the BDU to make it a true short sleeve top (aka cut out the extra material) was not authorized. The reason was that when the situation arose that you needed to extend the sleeve back out from the roll, you couldn't if you cut the material out. AR 670-1 never allowed alterations of the uniform to change it from its original design. I even had a few 1SGs who would hold an end of day formation and randomly pick a squad or platoon and inspect them, having them drop their sleeves just to ensure that they didn't alter the uniform. If the rolls come back, you will just have to deal with the extra material or pray that the regulation changes to allow for it.
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CPT (Join to see)
SSG Jason Penn - wow, they were serious about it. I want that bad but some soldiers would just about injure themselves by blood loss. I'm am not a fan of it at all.
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Personally, with all the concern about gun violence in the country right now...I wouldn't want to walk around with these GUNS in plain view.
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Whatever the regulations say now, it is important to consider the medical aspect of sleeves up or sleeves down. A short look at the effects of Vitamin D3 deficiency is that a body receiving less than 600 International Units per day of Vitamin D 3 is at increased risk of a lot of things, including knee and hip pain, cancer, etc., all of which can increase the risk of sick days, injuries, that are otherwise avoidable, and thus increase the costs of medical treatment, in essence taking money away from veterans that might need it more. With the introduction of more females into the service, including combat roles, the potential exists for more Vitamin D3 deficiency in females leading to osteoporosis, which at some point could be lablelled service-connected, if the prolonged deficiency were so judged. Dosage exposure measurements are common in radiation control environments, like X ray machines, power plants, etc. With the advances in medical techonolgy in the past 15 years, health effects are becoming easier to measure, and IMO, should be part of the mix in decision making. One size doesn't necessarily fit all. But in Drill and Ceremony, everybody needs to do the same thing, to look sharp.
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Uniform: not varying or changing : staying the same at all times, in all places, or for all parts or members (Webster)
Remember it's called a "Uniform" not "MIL Loincloth". They regulate it because they can. It's one of those things they abhor if the SMs are left to their own devices. I've noticed a significant portion of the Army posts have to deal with a reg. Regs define a process, standard, or appearance most times. I think the logic behind them is to specify something so it's done the same way every time and, if you know it, you don't have to think about it. So the top brass concludes that by having them, the service is better off for it. I think it has a lot to do with having the same look and feel wherever you go. Don't worry, it's cyclical. The next group of whiz kids will "improve" things to what they were 20 years ago with their "new" idea they can take credit for.
Remember it's called a "Uniform" not "MIL Loincloth". They regulate it because they can. It's one of those things they abhor if the SMs are left to their own devices. I've noticed a significant portion of the Army posts have to deal with a reg. Regs define a process, standard, or appearance most times. I think the logic behind them is to specify something so it's done the same way every time and, if you know it, you don't have to think about it. So the top brass concludes that by having them, the service is better off for it. I think it has a lot to do with having the same look and feel wherever you go. Don't worry, it's cyclical. The next group of whiz kids will "improve" things to what they were 20 years ago with their "new" idea they can take credit for.
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Easiest way to protect yourself from UV rays and reduce your risk of skin cancer. Why risk it? (My father served 25 years died of skin cancer after surgery to remove it was unsuccessful which led it to spread to brain)
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CPT Nick Bryan
Also when the regs changed they gave us headgear that literally did nothing to protect you from the sun... The Beret!
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CPL James Ross
CPT Nick Bryan - ....... I cannot tell you why the regs. are what they are now, however I can tell you something about the early 50's.
We were permitted to go bare arms,backs and legs if that was our choice, however if we got a severe Sunburn, it was a Court Marshall Offence. I can only surmise that today's regs. are for health reasons.
We were permitted to go bare arms,backs and legs if that was our choice, however if we got a severe Sunburn, it was a Court Marshall Offence. I can only surmise that today's regs. are for health reasons.
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SSG Jonathan Flynn
If skin cancer was considered an issue by the Army, then why not authorize the wear of boonie hats? Not sure about the present day, but they used to be issued, then were never allowed to be worn. Spent many many hours in the hot sun wearing a patrol cap or kevlar, with my neck frying. Very sorry about your father.
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