Posted on Dec 10, 2017
LTC Stephen Conway
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It seems like duplicative effort for me for the US Army come up with their own light armored vehicle. Canada General Dynamics had this system for decades. The USMC bought it the LAV 25...hopefully, we see them upgrade to the existing LAV 3. River Crossing operations is one Army mission but the Stryker is not amphibious.The US Army is doing the same thing as it did to its most recent uniform fiasco and in Reinventing the wheel. Puzzle Palace Politics??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6Szn-1TJVI
Edited 8 y ago
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Responses: 21
LTC Stephen Franke
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Greetings to ALCON in this interesting and relevant thread.
May I observe -- with all due respect accorded to all concerned parties -- that, IMPO, the LAV series of wheeled tactical vehicles -- when in employed in a light infantry (i.e. absent an armor-dominant) operating environment -- is a much-superior and substantially more-mission-adaptable system than the Stryker series (which have reportedly emerged in their using US Army units as support-heavy "maintenance dogs"). Releasable details provided on request.
Hope this helps in this discussion. Today is Sunday, 18 February 2018.
Regards,
Stephen H. Franke
LTC, U.S. Army Retired
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LTC Stephen Conway
LTC Stephen Conway
8 y
Yes, your input is appreciated, Sir!! I just think they keep Reinventing the wheel.
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LTC Stephen Conway
LTC Stephen Conway
8 y
What do you think, sir, about the new Canadian lav series. I know the Marines are about to get rid of theirs .Canada keeps improving their platforms!!!

http://www.gdlscanada.com/
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LTC Stephen Conway
LTC Stephen Conway
8 y
Sir, please elaborate as much as you want!
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Sgt Nick Walsh
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The Bradley is to slow period, they wanted all track vehicles in the 80-90’s and turned down the LAV for the Bradley.
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SGT Russell Wickham
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Each Stryker IFV can carry an entire squad of infantry soldiers in relative comfort while the LAV loses much of that capability because of the turret. With the exception of the MGS, all Stryker versions have a lower center of gravity than the LAV, and all are easy to load on a C-130, allowing them to be quickly transported to wherever needed. The same basic chassis can be fitted to accomplish a wide array of missions, while reducing supply chain logistics issues through standardized parts. This flexibility designed into the Stryker system makes it superior to the LAV in every way except armament. I missed that Bushmaster when I switched from Bradley to Stryker combat vehicles.
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LTC Stephen Conway
LTC Stephen Conway
8 y
Thank you Sergeant for giving me the details on that vehicle system. Your feedback I feedback from a former Bradley driver who went to Strikers has given me a lot of inside to the development of the vehicle. What do you think of the Canadian lav 3? It is also base with the same basic components. It also has a turret in some models.
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SGT Russell Wickham
SGT Russell Wickham
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I do not have personal experience with the LAV III to give it a proper assessment in comparison to the Stryker. Looking over the video presented and other documentation online, it has the advantage of the Bushmaster, but sacrifices interior room to transport troops. It is designed for operation in conjunction with tanks, similar to U.S. heavy mech units that operate Abrams and Bradleys, as opposed to Strykers that operate in stand alone units. It is heavier than the Stryker, with a higher center of gravity, but many of the technological advances developed for Strykers have now been incorporated into the LAV 3 negating some of the advantages Strykers had. However, Strykers have 10 variants as opposed to 5 variants for the LAV, allowing the Strykers to fulfill a broader spectrum of requirements. Having fought one in Afghanistan, and trained on them in Germany, I prefer the advantages it provides over the LAV. I think I would have preferred the LAV in a force on force fight because of its greater firepower, but for the fighting we did, having the whole squad spilling from one vehicle while the vehicle provided a base of fire gave us the mobility to put an infantry platoon into contact quickly and often from unexpected directions. It's really a trade off between firepower and carrying capacity. I prefer the capacity for the missions I experienced.
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LTC Program Manager
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The short answer is "To meet the Army's requiernment". Everything in Army Acquisitions is done to meet a requirement in an approved requiernments document. The driving force behind many early decisions on Stryker was the requiernment to be C-130 transportable. We could have done a lot of things diferantly without that requiernment.
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LTC Stephen Conway
LTC Stephen Conway
8 y
Thank you for putting it into the context of the armies requirements.
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SSG Edward Tilton
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The contractors got to spend billions developing it. What is "developed" is not important, it's how much you can bleed the taxpayer for that counts
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LTC Stephen Conway
LTC Stephen Conway
8 y
Yes, though I live in Canada, I try to think outside of the Groupthink!!
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SGM Erik Marquez
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You mean the vehicle the Marine CORPS want to get rid of, that one?
https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/corps-to-upgrade-lavs-searching-for-a-replacement-marine-corps-times?loc=similar_main&pos=0&type=qrc

Why would the Army buy into a vehicle that has 1960's Tech in its AT weapon system, a turret that can not handle modern electronics because the slip ring is not capable, a vehicle that has parts obsolesce NOW and will only get worse
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LTC Stephen Conway
LTC Stephen Conway
8 y
Okay, I'm mistaken about the light armored vehicle the Marines had the beginning but the light armored vehicle family number three the Canadiens have an is amphibious. It is badass and it does work. Canada just ordered 5 billion dollars more of the same system.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAV_III
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CWO3 Us Marine
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8 y
I believe they are trying to upgrade 1/2 and shift some $ into R&D for a replacement. Nothing new to USMC due to small budget, but LAV's have served USMC well since Army opted out as lead service of the initial buy. LAV III would not fit the needs of Army IMO at this point, although 82nd is working on some concepts for their mission. I believe they were loaned some from USMC to test the concept a few months ago.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
8 y
CWO3 (Join to see) - "I believe they are trying to upgrade 1/2 and shift some $ into R&D for a replacement. "

Yes kind of, "More like forced to make band aid upgrades to get by a few more years and shift 1/2 the funding to a search for vehicle replacement.

The point is, they don't want the LAV anymore either,,they just have no choice right now.
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SFC Tom Jones
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Well I don't know much or anything about those 2, but from 1st hand experience can tell you that the Bradley is a very awesome vehicle, just as long as it's in open country or forest's but get it in the city alleyways it becomes a big casket. Example is when the 24th Inf Div. went to Somalia it didn't take very long for them to want to talk. Cause if it was hot in the scope it was shoot, just like what we did during Desert Storm but when the ROE changed the Iraq's were a little bit more braver. Bottom line is this if it is good in the field and it saves lives that's what really matters.
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PFC Odis Lee
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The Stryker is just an updated LAV III. Makes sense to take an existing platform and update it, so that is what they did
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PV2 Rigo Rivas
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The LAV III, originally named the Kodiak by the Canadian Army, is the third generation of the Light Armoured Vehicle (LAV) family of Infantry fighting vehicle built by General Dynamics Land Systems first entering service in 1999. It is based on the Swiss Mowag Piranha IIIH 8x8.The LAV III, originally named the Kodiak by the Canadian Army, is the third generation of the Light Armoured Vehicle (LAV) family of Infantry fighting vehicle built by General Dynamics Land Systems first entering service in 1999. It is based on the Swiss Mowag Piranha IIIH 8x8.
It was developed in Canada and is the primary mechanized infantry vehicle of the Canadian Army and the New Zealand Army.[1] It also forms the basis of the Stryker vehicle used by the US Army and other operators.
Piranhas are available in 4×4, 6×6, 8×8, and 10×10 wheel versions. There are several variants within these versions, giving different degrees of armour protection and several kinds of turret, for use in a variety of roles. Piranha derivatives have been assigned roles as troop transports, command vehicles, fire support vehicles, tank trainers, and police vehicles.

Piranhas are used by the Swiss Army. Swiss-built Piranha derivatives have been exported to Sweden, Denmark, Ireland, Romania, Spain, and Belgium. The Romanian and Belgian Armies have selected the Piranha IIIC 8x8. Belgium converted to an all-wheeled force, and replaced all their M113s, AIFVs and Leopard 1s with 268 Piranha IIIC in 7 variants.[2][3]

Piranha derivatives have been manufactured under license by General Dynamics (Canada), BAE Systems Land Systems (UK), Cardoen and FAMAE (Chile), and in the USA. The 8x8 US Army Stryker vehicle is derived from the Canadian LAV III, which in turn is based on the Piranha, as is the LAV-25 family in service with the USMC. The Australian Defence Force also has its own modified version of the Piranha I 8x8, known as the ASLAV (Australian Light Armoured Vehicle). The ASLAV is operated by two cavalry regiments (the 2nd Cavalry Regiment and 2nd/14th Light Horse Regiment) and is used in the armoured reconnaissance and armoured personnel carrier roles.
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SGT Kenneth Young
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I don't know anything about the Stryker. I was on Bradley's.

My question is what was wrong with the Bradley? We could swim them easily.
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