Posted on Apr 22, 2014
Why do servicemembers leave without a solid plan?
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Share your story to assist others prior to transitioning.<div><br></div><div>With the veteran's unemployment rate higher than that of the overall unemployment rate and 'Unemployment Compensation' continually draining the military's budget, why do servicemembers leave the military without a solid plan?<br><br>What are the benefits?<br>Typically, the amount of unemployment that you would receive is based on income prior to separation. According to the Missouri Department of Labor Benefit Calculator (http://labor.mo.gov/DES/Claims/calculator), if you earned $27,000 in the year prior to applying, you would receive an estimated $270 weekly.</div>
Posted in these groups: 
Transition
Employment
Transition Employment
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 14
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I think there might be a few reasons behind it.
1. They don't know what they want to be when they grow up. I have college degrees and I've worked various jobs civilian/military but I still can't answer that question. If I got out tomorrow I'd probably be just as lost as the next guy.
2. They are tired of answering to someone. Maybe they are ready for a break from the working world and want their spouses to take over for a while. I know a guy that is a retired 1SG his wife is a SFC and this was his plan. It lasted about 4 months before she had enough and told him he needed to find work because he was driving her nuts.
Just my thoughts
1. They don't know what they want to be when they grow up. I have college degrees and I've worked various jobs civilian/military but I still can't answer that question. If I got out tomorrow I'd probably be just as lost as the next guy.
2. They are tired of answering to someone. Maybe they are ready for a break from the working world and want their spouses to take over for a while. I know a guy that is a retired 1SG his wife is a SFC and this was his plan. It lasted about 4 months before she had enough and told him he needed to find work because he was driving her nuts.
Just my thoughts
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Simple we are taught to follow orders. No one gave a an order to make a plan. DUH!
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SSG Mike Angelo
there is some truth in that, however as one progresses in the ranks, he/she learns to frag an order.
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tl/dr: Culture shock, no systems, no such thing as a board. Sorry for the length - this is an area I am kind of passionate about. I would edit, but I do have to get to my day job at some point.
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So, having been in a somewhat unique position, a senior TPU officer counseling junior AC officers on transitioning, I think the #1 answer is "culture shock." It appears to me that most military personnel don't realize just how throughly planned/structured/organized/etc. the military is, or appreciate that there is always someone in charge making decisions based on semi-transparent criteria - carefully weighing the mission, the needs of the organization, and its people.
In can hear keyboards starting to click right now about all the flaws that exist in the military, all the seemingly senseless decisions made, and horror stories about terrible leaders.... Post if you want. All I can say is you are comparing apples to carburetors. As bad as you think any of the systems are in the military, the dirty secret is that they don't EXIST in any meaningful sense in the civilian world.
Or, perhaps better stated: There are untold THOUSANDS of discrete, empirical, non-synchonized, contradictory, and non- or poorly documented systems. And generally what is published is a polite fiction, aimed at avoiding lawsuits.
I'll give just a few examples from my day job:
1. Hiring. I have about a dozen people who work directly for me. What is the board process to get selected for this? There isn't one. You submit a resume and cover letter. If it appeals to me, You get an interview. If you get an interview, and I like your answers, You are competitive. I compare the competitive people. If I think you're the best fit, I'll offer you the job. What makes your resume appeal to me? There are certain things I look for. I look for self-directed people who have been able to get results in an unstructured environment and present a professional image. However, there exist NO objective criteria which will ensure your resume stands out to me. [in another post, I would be happy to talk about tips & hints for resumes] Moreover, the things that will make your resume pop for me may get it round-filed by John, the manager in the next office over. And that's in one section of one division of one employer... And I haven't mentioned that I chose to NOT have HR screen resumes - I get them all. HR prefers to screen them so as to not waste my time with resumes that they don't think make the cut. I stopped letting them after they failed to forward me a resume from someone I had directly recruited.
2. Evaluation. How are you evaluated? Depends on the employer. We have a structured evaluation process that is comprehensible compared to the OER/NCOER, with initial and mid-year counselings. However, it generally doesn't matter, unless you suck and I'm putting together a packet to fire you. It is very largely a Skillcraft drill where I work. That said, I tend to take it somewhat seriously (mostly because of my military background), and try to work in good counseling. At other employers I have worked for, it was a matter of life or death, where poor evals would lead to termination (not as support for a termination event, but as the event itself) or determination of a raise.
3. Raises. My employer has a rigidly established "step" chart. Comprehensible to the military. You get set raises basically every year until you hit 15 years. There are no performance raises or bonuses. I have worked for employers that did performance raises and bonuses. As well as employers that just pay straight commission. I have also worked for employers that hire you for a set wage, and that's your wage until you leave.
4. Promotions. Some employers have some idea of merit-based semi-automatic promotions, I'm told. I've never worked for one. In every employer I've ever worked with, you get promoted one of three ways: A) You apply for a new job - either with the current or different employer, B) You are by-name recruited into a new position, either with the current or different employer, or C) You get a position created for you. At my current employer of 15 years, I was initially hired as an "in training" computer programmer (so, technically, there were a few semi-automatic "promotions" until I hit the full-performance level of the position hired for), I applied for a higher-level programming job and got it. I was by-name recruited to replace a project manager that left unexpectedly. Finally, I lobbied to create my current position - then lobbied that I should be the person to do it. If I wish to be promoted again (and I do), my options are to A) create a new position, B) get selected for the CIO position when my boss leaves, C) get my resume out there...
5. Workplace Norms. Some employers are suit and tie, button-down and terribly proper. Some are jeans and t-shirt and nerd fights in the office. In my case, as a programmer, I was in jeans and a t-shirt, and was seen as professional. As a project manager I work khakis and polo shirts and was good to go. In my current position, it's dress shoes, slacks, shirt and tie. Other managers at my level are suits every day, while others are still at jeans and t-shirt. And I've only hit on dress codes at ONE employer. I had a meeting with the well-respected head of another agency yesterday - He was in a hawaiian shirt. This is why I often bite my tongue in posts about the military presenting a "professional" appearance. I have very little idea what that's supposed to mean.
So, I just picked 5 big items to highlight. Think of it this way. When someone enters the military, they go through a structured and intentional program to explain the new rules of the new organization they joined. Then those norms and success patterns are reinforced for every day of their service. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do the same transitioning to the civilian world. Not difficult. IMPOSSIBLE. Because there is no one organization, set of norms, or success patterns. Not taking away from ACAP. It's better than nothing, but the cultural shift is just huge.
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SFC (Join to see)
I agree with the LTC, most people do not see how the military operates in its full capacity. Most Soldiers only know what happens in their company or platoon.
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SSG Mike Angelo
The LTC makes several points to think about. The Army and military service is a system. It takes time to accept it, learn it and to successfully navigate it.
Once it becomes habit forming, and the SM or DoD civilian becomes acculturate to that system, anything external seems to be vague and ambiguous, until the SM or DoD Civilian retires or ends his/her contract with the military branch.
Now being on the outside of the military looking in, the retiree for example knows very little about the new living and working environment.
Military systemic habits are a condition that may leave the retiree handicapped....deaf, dumb and blind in the civilian world.
This condition has caused suicides, heart attacks/strokes, anxiety attacks, divorce, increase debt, homelessness and hunger.
ACAP does introduce the Service Member to the process of the civilian world but does not prepare for the retiree to cope with change.
Until such time of confidence, Retirees should be granted 100% disability from the VA due to incompatible social and emotional norms developed while serving in the military. IMO
Once it becomes habit forming, and the SM or DoD civilian becomes acculturate to that system, anything external seems to be vague and ambiguous, until the SM or DoD Civilian retires or ends his/her contract with the military branch.
Now being on the outside of the military looking in, the retiree for example knows very little about the new living and working environment.
Military systemic habits are a condition that may leave the retiree handicapped....deaf, dumb and blind in the civilian world.
This condition has caused suicides, heart attacks/strokes, anxiety attacks, divorce, increase debt, homelessness and hunger.
ACAP does introduce the Service Member to the process of the civilian world but does not prepare for the retiree to cope with change.
Until such time of confidence, Retirees should be granted 100% disability from the VA due to incompatible social and emotional norms developed while serving in the military. IMO
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I think there are a couple of things in play when it comes to soldiers transition plans. One being their unit and how they handle transitions. My unit could have cared less and some probably looked down on me for getting out. I essentially got stop lossed to go to PLDC. Once I got done I had to rush to get out for my ETS date (I'd had enough aggravation at that point I wasn't about to stay any longer than I had to.) Plus most of the ACAP stuff was pretty worthless in my opinion.
Second, soldiers may have a plan but find it more difficult to implement than they thought or run into other problems. Before the post 9/11 GI Bill going to school on the MGIB was a joke. The stipend was just too little and out of date for what was going on with school. This has been remedied for the most part now but many soldiers are not well versed in personal finance and their plan falls apart.
Finally, returning to the civilian world in and of itself can completely derail a SM's transition plan. I found that without the support of my fellow soldiers that I had relied on day in and day out for 3 years for everything I could think of I was lost, and I consider myself to be a very independent person. For me that was the undoing of my plan, it took entirely too long for me to readjust to a point where I could function in the civilian world.
Second, soldiers may have a plan but find it more difficult to implement than they thought or run into other problems. Before the post 9/11 GI Bill going to school on the MGIB was a joke. The stipend was just too little and out of date for what was going on with school. This has been remedied for the most part now but many soldiers are not well versed in personal finance and their plan falls apart.
Finally, returning to the civilian world in and of itself can completely derail a SM's transition plan. I found that without the support of my fellow soldiers that I had relied on day in and day out for 3 years for everything I could think of I was lost, and I consider myself to be a very independent person. For me that was the undoing of my plan, it took entirely too long for me to readjust to a point where I could function in the civilian world.
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SSG Mike Angelo
The first 5 years out was my critical period of adjustment. First, pre 911 I got a job and got hurt/injured took workman's comp. then I went to school to get a degree in a field that I already worked in for several years. Then I got a factory job until the manufacturing was outsourced to China. I had low seniority so I got let go. That was post 9-11 and after my 5 year post retirement mark, I went back to the farm and traveled with the rodeo circuit. At that point, I was having fun enjoying living on 400 acres with 200 horses and a bunch of cattle, riding horse and shooting my firearms in competitions. Just before I hit the 10 year mark post retirement, I decided to go back to school. I sent my horses down the road, and got busy getting my education. I am at 18 year mark post retirement and enjoying my current position as a Vista, with plans to return to school after my tour is up.
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I had a junior NCO who decided he was getting out. He even took the firefighter exam in his hometown and was making a plan for life after the military. Once he went to ACAP he realized that getting out of the Army wasn't a good idea. He realized that in the long run he would be worse off than re-enlisting and staying in. He changed his mind as was able to re-enlist, although it was a "needs of the Army" enlistment. He made the best decision of his life!!
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I would have to say they don't have a plan because time is allotted by ACAP for up to a year, but how much time is actually allowed to discover what they want to do. They can't just fly home to apply for work every weekend, and soldiers can't always get time to train or start college while in the army. I think the army is just as disconnected as to how civilian life works, as the civilians are to how army life works. I joined when I was 28 thinking I would get a fresh start of my past failures by joining. It has been good, but now that I am 100 positive I am getting out, with a year left, what I really want to do requires me to go to EMT school, which there is no way I can do while in and Infantry unit that is understaffed already, and having to go to training ect....
I'm not saying a year out soldiers should be allowed to do whatever, but what about if red cycle tasks and other details were filled by soldiers who were in the transitioning process. A Declaration of nonre-enlistment should be made to be signed and for the last 6-7 months a soldier get an 8 hour shift where they do gate guard, or property maintenance or whatever other detail needs to be done that anyone could fill. It would allow soldiers to transition into a more scheduled life, as well as afford time to start some sort of classes or work study or whatever they can find to get the ball for employment post army going. Maybe send some to help out recruiters closer to home of record driving soldiers to meps or helping set up events so recruiters could be doing more proactive things.
I'm not saying a year out soldiers should be allowed to do whatever, but what about if red cycle tasks and other details were filled by soldiers who were in the transitioning process. A Declaration of nonre-enlistment should be made to be signed and for the last 6-7 months a soldier get an 8 hour shift where they do gate guard, or property maintenance or whatever other detail needs to be done that anyone could fill. It would allow soldiers to transition into a more scheduled life, as well as afford time to start some sort of classes or work study or whatever they can find to get the ball for employment post army going. Maybe send some to help out recruiters closer to home of record driving soldiers to meps or helping set up events so recruiters could be doing more proactive things.
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SGT James Elphick
SGT you bring up some good points and ideas. When I was doing ACAP I got sent to PLDC to beef up our battalions numbers and then when I got done got rushed through the process to be able to make my ETS date. My unit had no concern for my time especially as it pertained to post-service life.
Also, your plan for soldiers transitioning sounds great. You need to get someone important on the phone for that.
Also, your plan for soldiers transitioning sounds great. You need to get someone important on the phone for that.
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SSG Mike Angelo
SGT Matt, the under staffing phenomena is like the slinky effect in a brigade PT run. when people leave a unit for what ever reason, those left behind are reminded about the mission and to pick up the slack until that mission changes. We saw it back in the 70s and 80s...90s too. realigning the mission to a units capacity is a command responsibility. If we want to run with minimal slinky effect, we put the deer and the antelope in the rear of the formation and steady eddies in the front. Profiles would not run. Now...if units would operate like this, maybe mission alignment to unit capacity would be more manageable. IMO
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The main reason that I see is that the military is not meant for everyone. Some Soldiers just don't agree with policies and regulations and feel as if we are like puppet masters to them. Some joined to get away from home and the rules of their parents only to find out that the military has more. Few actually had a plan when they came in to put some discipline in their lives, get the GI Bill and get out to pursue other things.
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1) All the counseling and planning in the world does not guarentee a person a good job to support themselves.
2) Many people fail to get the civilian certifications they need to be competitive in the work force.
3) Many people forget that just like the military they might have to start at the bottom of an organization and work their way up.
4) Failing to realize how valuable some of the tools they have i.e. PMCSing vehicles, being personally accountable for thousands of dollars of equiptment, ect.
5) Some people take longer to adjust to the civilian world after being in the military bubble for so many years.
6) Not using their G.I. to get into a trade, there are many jobs open that need skilled workers, with the ability to have G.I. Bill pay for a trade many people are failing to see that college is no their only option.
Nothing I am saying do I have proof, or referrence to. These are just things I have observed. Nothing I am saying is gospel, and not all of this happens to everyone who can't find a job after getting out of the military.
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<p>I would assume they either leave without proper counseling or out of anger, leaving them with a lackluster plan.</p><p> </p><p>Beyond that, maybe they joined the Army out of high school because they could do nothing else and are ok with riding on benefits for awhile? While this likely happens less often, I am sure we see this from time to time.</p><p> </p><p>I can also say that the market out here is complete crap. Its nigh impossible (in my experience) to find any job that is not entry level, even with years of military experience and a master's degree.</p>
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Ultimately it comes down to taking personal responsibility. Some are afforded the opportunity to plan; but don't communicate with someone outside of the military (or if they do hesitate to implement advice) - and then are faced with the realities of having to adjust their thinking toward a corporate environment; others - like myself are thrust back into the civilian world with very little time (if any) to make the adjustment.
I ended up being discharged on the basis of Parenthood - because I became a single father to three. Within 30 days of getting my children in my custody, I was out and had to struggle hard and fast to deal with finding a home (we were staying temporarily at a friends house), a job, a babysitter, and a host of other challenges.
I didn't have a degree - and if I wanted to, could have found plenty of reasons to be bitter - but a driving force for me was my children - what kind of example was I going to be for them.
Fasttrack gameplan then became:
1) Temp Work
2) Talk to Civilian HR folks; revamp resume
3) Research Companies
4) Network
5) Network
6) Network
I went from a $10/hr Temp job (yeah ... it was humbling) to a $35/hr position within a high tech firm (took 3 months).
Anything is possbile - don't settle for excuses, especially from yourself. I also benefited from a terrific support group from within my church. They held me accountable to my goals and kept me on task.
I ended up being discharged on the basis of Parenthood - because I became a single father to three. Within 30 days of getting my children in my custody, I was out and had to struggle hard and fast to deal with finding a home (we were staying temporarily at a friends house), a job, a babysitter, and a host of other challenges.
I didn't have a degree - and if I wanted to, could have found plenty of reasons to be bitter - but a driving force for me was my children - what kind of example was I going to be for them.
Fasttrack gameplan then became:
1) Temp Work
2) Talk to Civilian HR folks; revamp resume
3) Research Companies
4) Network
5) Network
6) Network
I went from a $10/hr Temp job (yeah ... it was humbling) to a $35/hr position within a high tech firm (took 3 months).
Anything is possbile - don't settle for excuses, especially from yourself. I also benefited from a terrific support group from within my church. They held me accountable to my goals and kept me on task.
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