Posted on Jul 12, 2021
Why do so many MSGs insist on being addressed as Master Sergeant?
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AR 600-20 is clear. The title of address for a MSG is "Sergeant." My personal opinion is that the majority of MSGs that insist on it do so because of their ego. The remainder is just ignorance.
EDIT: There have been a lot of responses from folks of various services, so let me make it clear (if it wasn't already) that this question pertains to Master Sergeants in the United States Army. I don't hold any grudge with people who address them as "Master Sergeant" out of respect. I usually just make a gentle correction and move on. My question SPECIFICALLY addresses those individuals who (presumably knowing better) INSIST on being addressed in a manner that is out of line with regulation and what their motivation could be for doing so. Many responses are some variation of "They've earned it" but that doesn't hold much water with me. By the time an NCO makes MSG, they should be secure enough in their career and position to not need constant affirmation of their rank.
EDIT: There have been a lot of responses from folks of various services, so let me make it clear (if it wasn't already) that this question pertains to Master Sergeants in the United States Army. I don't hold any grudge with people who address them as "Master Sergeant" out of respect. I usually just make a gentle correction and move on. My question SPECIFICALLY addresses those individuals who (presumably knowing better) INSIST on being addressed in a manner that is out of line with regulation and what their motivation could be for doing so. Many responses are some variation of "They've earned it" but that doesn't hold much water with me. By the time an NCO makes MSG, they should be secure enough in their career and position to not need constant affirmation of their rank.
Edited 4 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 307
That's how I always addressed them, unlessI was interducing them to my wife or new recruits 1SG (Join to see)
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Not sure why we wouldn't just address the superior how they want to be addressed. In the Corps, everyone I knew addressed their superiors with their full formal title, unless invited to do otherwise. By default start with the full title, they earned it. Some folks care more about that than others. Using a full title doen't adversely affect your paycheck or meal schedule. Disrespect can though.
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Not to bust on your ego as 1SG, I have always felt that it should be. The US Army was stuck in the old British Hierarchy which was the only form of military they knew and it's kept alive to this day. By calling all Sgt ranks by only SGT and not by the actual rank, is taking away the power, credibility, significance of each individual rank. Isn't a 1SG just a MSG, same pay depending on years, except you have a little diamond?
You know that the Army is the only branch that treats it's NCO Corps as over paid specialists? In the Marines, SSG is the start of a great accomplishment. Treated with high regard. They ARE at the next level of Leadership often times being platoon sergeants. And look out for that Gunnery Sergeant. He is the man and knows his stuff. Officers come to him for advise and often times the leader in combat w/o an officer. WHY? Because he is held in high regard. Professional.
Navy has a whole separate ceremony when one makes Chief. They have their own set of class A uniform. And he IS the Leader that his COC comes to. He is the Subject Matter Expert. And the same can be said when they make E-6.
So long story almost short. YES!! SSG, SFC, MSG, 1SG, SGM, CSM should be called by their rank. And if I recall I have never heard of a CSM bitching about being called Sergeant Major.
P.S. I still believe that the Army needs to bring back the full spectrum of Specialist ranks for E-5, E-6, E-7.
You know that the Army is the only branch that treats it's NCO Corps as over paid specialists? In the Marines, SSG is the start of a great accomplishment. Treated with high regard. They ARE at the next level of Leadership often times being platoon sergeants. And look out for that Gunnery Sergeant. He is the man and knows his stuff. Officers come to him for advise and often times the leader in combat w/o an officer. WHY? Because he is held in high regard. Professional.
Navy has a whole separate ceremony when one makes Chief. They have their own set of class A uniform. And he IS the Leader that his COC comes to. He is the Subject Matter Expert. And the same can be said when they make E-6.
So long story almost short. YES!! SSG, SFC, MSG, 1SG, SGM, CSM should be called by their rank. And if I recall I have never heard of a CSM bitching about being called Sergeant Major.
P.S. I still believe that the Army needs to bring back the full spectrum of Specialist ranks for E-5, E-6, E-7.
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SGM (Join to see)
MSG James Devereaux - With the CPLs you denigrated earlier and all the 1SGs here, it's no surprise you learned everything you know from your (E4 Team Leader). He or She would be proud to know you didn't need to learn anything after what he or she taught you!
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SGM (Join to see)
If someone in one of those ranks isn't comfortable enough in their own boots to handle not being called by the full title of their rank every time someone addresses them, then they may be too fragile to shoulder the weight of the responsibilities of that rank. You're wearing the stripes, you should be acting like a MSG (or SSG or SFC or whatever), everyone will see the 3 stripes up with 3 rockers (or two or one), and will know who you are. Some kind of ego-stroking demands like calling you by your full rank rather than the directed term of address is just ridiculous. Get over it and move on.
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I never called a MSG anything but "Sergeant" even when directly told to by MSG's. The regulation is clear, and defined. You shall be addressed as "Sergeant" until Command places special trust and confidence in your ability to lead a Company and makes you a 1SG.
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Not familiar with the Army Regs. It almost seems ridiculous to need a reg where you state the title of address for a rank, and then have multiple ranks with the same designation. I come from the Marine Corps side, and your designation was your rank…which makes complete sense. A private is a private, a pfc, is a pfc, a lance corporal is a lance corporal, a corporal is a corporal, a sergeant is a sergeant, a staff sergeant is a staff sergeant, a gunnery sergeant is a gunnery sergeant or gunny, a 1st sergeant is a 1st sergeant or 1st shirt, a master sergeant is a master sergeant or top, a master gunnery sergeant is a master gunnery sergeant or master gunz, a sergeant major is a sergeant major, or smaj. I’ve always seen it as respect, not ego. I actually thought it was disrespecting when I would hear officers calling each other by their first names around the enlisted. Behind closed doors, or out at a bar, ok, but in uniform, with enlisted around, a lieutenant and captain should call each other by their rank, or the junior one can call the senior one sir, but keep the first names at unofficial events. That’s my take. But this thing, where everyone is a sergeant, not ok with me. You’ve earn it, and someone is always senior when two or more Marines are together. So rank makes sense to me after 20 years of active duty, and another 16 years retired.
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I never expected nor demanded anything other than “sergeant,” the proper title of address according to Army Regulations at the time of my service. I only had one soldier address me as “master sergeant” and I always felt (perhaps wrongly) that he was being condescending. It wasn’t important enough to me to correct him.
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I always addressed MSGs as Master Sergeant up to and including when I was a SFC. I was just trying to show a little more respect. Now everybody addresses me as Master Sergeant. I appreciate the gesture, but I do NOT expect it. The regs call for "Sergeant", that's all I have coming.
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MSG James Devereaux
You were respectful to those senior NCOs and it had an impact on the other guys in your unit. They are giving that extra bit of respect because they feel you deserve it. I wish the army could duplicate soldiers with respect. I’m afraid it’s almost completely gone in the Army.
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In the Army there are only 4 forms of address for an NCO; Corporal, Sergeant, 1st Sergeant and Sergeant Major. The Airforce is a little different with the E-9 rank being called "Chief".
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Personally, I dont care. You hit it right in the head, with the regulation. The title for MSG is Sergeant. In my opinion Soldiers who wanted to be address as "Master Sergeant" feels entitled or felt like they lost their uniqueness. Especially the ones who just completed their diamond time. There's more important things to be worried about than get all bent up because someone called me a SGT instead of MSG.
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