Posted on May 18, 2016
Why does QMP message say soldier has 7 months to get out but it's actually 6 or less by time of notification?
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I was notified May 3rd that I have till 1 November to leave the service and never be able to serve again due to overweight 3 years ago. With 60 days saved leave that puts me at 4 months to find a new career after serving 11 years.
Posted in these groups: 
QMP
Transition
QMP Transition
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 76
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SFC (Join to see)
I'm talking about the post and the picture posted about crying SSG you need to get over it life goes.
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2LT (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) - I get it though, and correct me if I'm wrong, but if your body fat is lower and you are working out, it would/should make your pt
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2LT (Join to see)
2LT (Join to see) - improve your pt score because you are not carrying around extra weight. It is just the inaccurate system of body fat measurement that I am against.
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MSG (Join to see)
2LT (Join to see) - I agree the system is flawed, body composition and pt are two different things, what the military needs to do is consult with the civi world and come up with a better bio matrix, triceps skin fold, sub scapular skin fold, and waist skin fold measurements using calipers along with the dunk tank, but this process is lengthy and costly, with the tape there are ways to beat it, ie you got a 35" waist, but normally have 15" neck, you probably wont make tape, but if you do heavy duty neck exercises prior to tape you can artificially inflate your neck size and possibly pass tape, myself USMC Corpsman I weighed 200, i'm 5'8" well over weight limit, but by using the above said process minus the dunk tank, my body fat was 10% no problem, my argument would be why tape the neck its a useless measurement
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Unless you are not passing PT Sergeant or having any medical impediment that might red flag you to your duty/s I don't see other reason this might had happen due to either software or documentation or legal interpretation incompetence in part of home office. I am no legal advisor nor linked to any administrative personnel but it don't take a rocket scientist to see their is an error or at least misuse of information or breach of contract. I strongly recommend to seat down with your unit's legal advisor, keep your command inform at all time and avoid any outside legal movement since as an active duty member you cannot take any legal action against federal government ruling (Federal Tort Claims Act). If you get too impatience or too hasty you might blow any chances of getting the right help. If your unit does not resolve your issue follow always the chain of command, we are not civilians were we can just jump hoops ignoring what is ahead of us. This might stands as an Grievances: Article 138 Complaint but you must follow the proper procedure and give your command the opportunity to solve the issue, that means from bottom to top.
If anything else I am most certain there are other ways to accommodate a loyal and long term service member like yourself into a different MOS or service component. Meaning talk to your retention office and make proper arrangements.
Good luck SSG
Regards
If anything else I am most certain there are other ways to accommodate a loyal and long term service member like yourself into a different MOS or service component. Meaning talk to your retention office and make proper arrangements.
Good luck SSG
Regards
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SGT (Join to see)
Negative Sergeant Mayor, with all due respect and hope this is not taken out of context, every soldier is an advocate, a representative of law and order, and at all time must assume and resume all duties commanded to them. I want to post this last message not to be disrespectful to you or any other member of staff or commission command, but as a reminder of were these duties appointed to us come from.
NCO CREED
“No one is more professional than I. I am a noncommissioned officer, a leader of Soldiers. As a noncommissioned officer, I realize that I am a member of a time honored corps, which is known as "The Backbone of the Army". I am proud of the Corps of noncommissioned officers and will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the military service and my country regardless of the situation in which I find myself. I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety.
Competence is my watchword. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind—accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my Soldiers. I will strive to remain technically and tactically proficient. I am aware of my role as a noncommissioned officer. I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All Soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my Soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my Soldiers and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.
Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine. I will earn their respect and confidence as well as that of my Soldiers. I will be loyal to those with whom I serve; seniors, peers, and subordinates alike. I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders. I will not compromise my integrity, nor my moral courage. I will not forget, nor will I allow my comrades to forget that we are professionals, noncommissioned officers, leaders!”
So take my rank, take my pay and even put me in a solitary confinement but in my heart I will always be a noncommissioned officer, a leader of Soldiers.
Best Regards
NCO CREED
“No one is more professional than I. I am a noncommissioned officer, a leader of Soldiers. As a noncommissioned officer, I realize that I am a member of a time honored corps, which is known as "The Backbone of the Army". I am proud of the Corps of noncommissioned officers and will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the military service and my country regardless of the situation in which I find myself. I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety.
Competence is my watchword. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind—accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my Soldiers. I will strive to remain technically and tactically proficient. I am aware of my role as a noncommissioned officer. I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All Soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my Soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my Soldiers and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.
Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine. I will earn their respect and confidence as well as that of my Soldiers. I will be loyal to those with whom I serve; seniors, peers, and subordinates alike. I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders. I will not compromise my integrity, nor my moral courage. I will not forget, nor will I allow my comrades to forget that we are professionals, noncommissioned officers, leaders!”
So take my rank, take my pay and even put me in a solitary confinement but in my heart I will always be a noncommissioned officer, a leader of Soldiers.
Best Regards
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CSM (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see) - No problem with you being an advocate, but the information you are giving him is wrong. Breach of contract? Really? Federal Tort law? When he received his QMP notice it advised him of the appeal process and told him what regulation to reference.
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SGT (Join to see)
The general rule is that under Feres v United States, a service member may not recover under the Federal Tort Claims Act (FTCA) for claims which arise out of or in the course of activity incident to their service. Nevertheless because FTCA is vague, oblique, conspicuous in form, there is no specific definition that allows any federal employee to sue or claim any violation in part of federal government. The typical, if is not listed? It is not there. This is why any court will not consider any case under FTCA claims and it is why several countermeasures have been establish in place to protect the best interest of all parties embodied within the federal realm.
1. Among these but not limited:
“The Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989, Pub.L. 101-12 as amended, is a United States federal law that protects federal whistleblowers who work for the government and report agency misconduct.”
2. Article 138
“A discretionary act or omission by a commanding officer, under color of Federal military authority, that adversely affects the complainant personally”.
Basically establish a sort of check and balance within the same branch to maintain the law and order.
Nothing guarantees that all parties within any federal organization are exempt from getting carried away in disregard with the law, not to mention that nothing guarantee as well that all parties within the same subject are trustworthy of good judgement.
Meaning, there are also criminals inside the house CSM and even traitors, conspirators, radical without cause that endangers the very foundation that fortifies this great nation’s integrity.
“Security”
White Supremacy, Black Supremacy, Latino Supremacy or whatever the case may be, are traitors and violators of the American Constitution. These factionists really shouldn’t had any place within our federal government but, what can we do?
Maintain vigilance and always on guard not only so that we maintain a cohesive and competent organization but so can we guarantee the future of a strong Army.
Trust me when I say this, I have even seen a First Sergeant of the USMC get busted to private for just mishandling his authority.
Now going back to the SSGT Santana’s case, we are not arguing that in any form QMP is wrongdoing or breach of contract neither QSP, I mean if there is no money o well we got to accept things the way they are. But in his case there are several irregularities that are inconsistent, specifically the statement provided by him were the screener the SNCO making the revision passed him and according to SSgt’s claims the CMS came and ordered the reviewer to change the outcome.
SSGT Santana - “Nope it was the CSM, my rater gave me a Fully Capable, but was told by the CSM to change it. Just wish my rater would have stuck with his original evaluation.”
And if he lied about this, he was reminded about how wrong that is already.
But as you can see, this is the very statement that has raised more doubts than questions and it is why it makes this particular case uneasy to grasp. Specially an 11 yrs service camaraderie that claims he met all guidelines in the end IAW AR600-9. This review could had helped him to stay a little longer not kick him out.
Now forgive me if I have miss leaded anyone with my comments and hope it is not taken wrong, but it is what it is and it is why we are reminded during our oath prior enlisting that we have the duty to stand ready to mitigate not only foreign threats but also domestics. If we, the most precious and valuable asset of this nation that stands imperative to preserve, become corrupted and disseminated by pity differences than what chance do we have to overcome future threats from whoever is stupid enough to come after us, again?
To resume maybe this example has being taken out of scope, and simply is either a mistake or maybe lack of information such as many have appointed here already, that their might be something far worst in the SSGT's records that we are unaware of and gave him that QMP. But information is information and never too much to learn. Hope that with this discussion we may had motivated many to turn to their UCMJ knowledge not only so they can start enforcing them but so they don't brake them.
Regards
1. Among these but not limited:
“The Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989, Pub.L. 101-12 as amended, is a United States federal law that protects federal whistleblowers who work for the government and report agency misconduct.”
2. Article 138
“A discretionary act or omission by a commanding officer, under color of Federal military authority, that adversely affects the complainant personally”.
Basically establish a sort of check and balance within the same branch to maintain the law and order.
Nothing guarantees that all parties within any federal organization are exempt from getting carried away in disregard with the law, not to mention that nothing guarantee as well that all parties within the same subject are trustworthy of good judgement.
Meaning, there are also criminals inside the house CSM and even traitors, conspirators, radical without cause that endangers the very foundation that fortifies this great nation’s integrity.
“Security”
White Supremacy, Black Supremacy, Latino Supremacy or whatever the case may be, are traitors and violators of the American Constitution. These factionists really shouldn’t had any place within our federal government but, what can we do?
Maintain vigilance and always on guard not only so that we maintain a cohesive and competent organization but so can we guarantee the future of a strong Army.
Trust me when I say this, I have even seen a First Sergeant of the USMC get busted to private for just mishandling his authority.
Now going back to the SSGT Santana’s case, we are not arguing that in any form QMP is wrongdoing or breach of contract neither QSP, I mean if there is no money o well we got to accept things the way they are. But in his case there are several irregularities that are inconsistent, specifically the statement provided by him were the screener the SNCO making the revision passed him and according to SSgt’s claims the CMS came and ordered the reviewer to change the outcome.
SSGT Santana - “Nope it was the CSM, my rater gave me a Fully Capable, but was told by the CSM to change it. Just wish my rater would have stuck with his original evaluation.”
And if he lied about this, he was reminded about how wrong that is already.
But as you can see, this is the very statement that has raised more doubts than questions and it is why it makes this particular case uneasy to grasp. Specially an 11 yrs service camaraderie that claims he met all guidelines in the end IAW AR600-9. This review could had helped him to stay a little longer not kick him out.
Now forgive me if I have miss leaded anyone with my comments and hope it is not taken wrong, but it is what it is and it is why we are reminded during our oath prior enlisting that we have the duty to stand ready to mitigate not only foreign threats but also domestics. If we, the most precious and valuable asset of this nation that stands imperative to preserve, become corrupted and disseminated by pity differences than what chance do we have to overcome future threats from whoever is stupid enough to come after us, again?
To resume maybe this example has being taken out of scope, and simply is either a mistake or maybe lack of information such as many have appointed here already, that their might be something far worst in the SSGT's records that we are unaware of and gave him that QMP. But information is information and never too much to learn. Hope that with this discussion we may had motivated many to turn to their UCMJ knowledge not only so they can start enforcing them but so they don't brake them.
Regards
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SSG (Join to see)
Nope it was the CSM, my rater gave me a Fully Capable, but was told by the CSM to change it. Just wish my rater would have stuck with his original evaluation.
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MSG (Join to see)
Before someone screams "undue command influence" You can't have a "success" with an ABCP failure, nor can you have a 3/3 or better and accordingly, you can't really get a "Fully Capable" with 4s. He might have been pissed at you, but the CSM was just enforcing procedure.
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Focus on the future. Get copies of everything! Make sure you get your PIF. Sign up for TAP classes. Find out about transportation entitlements. See if you can get a letter stating you are separating (personnel) and get on USAjobs. You served and don't look back. Congrats and don't let this jade you!!!!
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Yet, they let a Brig. General who's currently overweight & has not tested for an APFT for over three years remain on full time guard status with the New Jersey national guard stay in.....total B.S. Officers should lead by example for lower ranking personnel to follow. Sickening knowing a BG chapters lower enlisted personnel for not making weight standards when he is overweight himself. Probably will get an MSM or higher for a retirement award as well.
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Here is the text of a letter I wrote for a SSG who was on last year's QMP list. As you read it note his accomplishments since the incident that resulted in his QMP. After his appeal was sent in he was retained.
Read the second paragraph. After getting in trouble and getting a FG ART-15 he excelled at everything. In addition to this letter he got one from the Division CSM stating that he was the runner up for DIV NCO of the year. He also provided information that the board already had such as: NCOERs letters of commendation and awards that attested to his stellar performance.
Yes, you can "beat" a QMP. It isn't easy, but if you can show that you are not the guy that the Army needs to get rid of you can be retained.
Now if you were overweight and since that time your performance has been middle-of-the road you will likely NOT be retained, but it is worth a shot.
I will copy this to a response to the original post so more see it.
1. SSG XXXX receives my highest recommendation for continued service as a highly valued Leader within the US Army. If the purpose of the QMP program is to rid the Army of leaders with no further leadership potential, he must be retained. Despite his identification for QMP by the program’s automatic filters, his outstanding performance demands that we fight for his retention. He is a Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO) that has exhibited a proven ability to handle the duties and responsibilities above his current rank of Staff Sergeant and he has the potential to rise to the highest ranks of the NCO Corps. He is a valued and relied upon member of our Brigade Combat Team (BCT).
2. Since his arrival to XXXX, SSG XXXX performance has been among the top 1% of the NCOs across the Brigade’s seven battalions. He was selected as our Brigade NCO of the Year and will represent the Brigade at the Division NCO of the Year event and higher. He earned such distinction because of his proven ability and success, as well as the beneficial impact and influence he has on peers, subordinates, seniors, and the entire organization. His leadership skills and professionalism is beyond that of his peers. He constantly demonstrates the foresight to anticipate requirements, and a talent for identifying future opportunities and/or obstacles. He does not just identify issues, he solves problems and teaches others to do so as well. He is in outstanding physical shape. He is a consummate team player. He is a resilient and tough NCO. As a Combat Engineer NCO, he is of even greater value to the BCT as the Brigade is poised to re-activate the Engineer Battalion into its formation. His leadership and MOS expertise is needed to re-integrate the engineer capabilities into a team that focuses on both the Wide Area Security and Combined Arms Maneuver mission scenarios. He also competed in, and finished third place in the Division Best Sapper competition, during which the contestants covered 50 miles in 50 hours. His tenacity, fitness and determination were on display.
3. SSG XXXX is a competent and capable leader with unlimited potential. He builds trusting teams by demonstrating a genuine concern for others, while simultaneously pushing his team to greater levels of success. He consistently performs at a level above his rank. His advanced leadership competencies and attributes provide a rock-solid foundation for his unbounded potential to handle increased challenges, duties, and responsibilities. SSG XXXX receives my highest recommendation to be retained for continued service. This recommendation is not easily earned, and it is based solely upon merit. SSG XXXX recommendation results from observed professionalism, performance, and determination.
Read the second paragraph. After getting in trouble and getting a FG ART-15 he excelled at everything. In addition to this letter he got one from the Division CSM stating that he was the runner up for DIV NCO of the year. He also provided information that the board already had such as: NCOERs letters of commendation and awards that attested to his stellar performance.
Yes, you can "beat" a QMP. It isn't easy, but if you can show that you are not the guy that the Army needs to get rid of you can be retained.
Now if you were overweight and since that time your performance has been middle-of-the road you will likely NOT be retained, but it is worth a shot.
I will copy this to a response to the original post so more see it.
1. SSG XXXX receives my highest recommendation for continued service as a highly valued Leader within the US Army. If the purpose of the QMP program is to rid the Army of leaders with no further leadership potential, he must be retained. Despite his identification for QMP by the program’s automatic filters, his outstanding performance demands that we fight for his retention. He is a Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO) that has exhibited a proven ability to handle the duties and responsibilities above his current rank of Staff Sergeant and he has the potential to rise to the highest ranks of the NCO Corps. He is a valued and relied upon member of our Brigade Combat Team (BCT).
2. Since his arrival to XXXX, SSG XXXX performance has been among the top 1% of the NCOs across the Brigade’s seven battalions. He was selected as our Brigade NCO of the Year and will represent the Brigade at the Division NCO of the Year event and higher. He earned such distinction because of his proven ability and success, as well as the beneficial impact and influence he has on peers, subordinates, seniors, and the entire organization. His leadership skills and professionalism is beyond that of his peers. He constantly demonstrates the foresight to anticipate requirements, and a talent for identifying future opportunities and/or obstacles. He does not just identify issues, he solves problems and teaches others to do so as well. He is in outstanding physical shape. He is a consummate team player. He is a resilient and tough NCO. As a Combat Engineer NCO, he is of even greater value to the BCT as the Brigade is poised to re-activate the Engineer Battalion into its formation. His leadership and MOS expertise is needed to re-integrate the engineer capabilities into a team that focuses on both the Wide Area Security and Combined Arms Maneuver mission scenarios. He also competed in, and finished third place in the Division Best Sapper competition, during which the contestants covered 50 miles in 50 hours. His tenacity, fitness and determination were on display.
3. SSG XXXX is a competent and capable leader with unlimited potential. He builds trusting teams by demonstrating a genuine concern for others, while simultaneously pushing his team to greater levels of success. He consistently performs at a level above his rank. His advanced leadership competencies and attributes provide a rock-solid foundation for his unbounded potential to handle increased challenges, duties, and responsibilities. SSG XXXX receives my highest recommendation to be retained for continued service. This recommendation is not easily earned, and it is based solely upon merit. SSG XXXX recommendation results from observed professionalism, performance, and determination.
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A "Marginal" from your Rater and a 4 and a 3 from your Senior Rater? The moment that NCOER hit HRC you were being set up on a hit list in the current environment. If your 1SG, CDR, and SGM cleared this through without giving you a heads up on the risk, they did you wrong.
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MAJ Daniel Buchholz
SSG (Join to see) - I tried to give that rating as a Senior rating one time... I had the Company 1SG and the BDE SGM (I was in a BDE HHC) both sit me down to make sure I knew what would happen if I continued with those numbers (since the NCO really didn't deserve them and I just didn't know that I could only use 1-2 for any Soldier I wanted to keep around).
That's why I took one look at that NCOER above and knew why this guy was in trouble if he had signed it.....
That's why I took one look at that NCOER above and knew why this guy was in trouble if he had signed it.....
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Because 6 months is the minimum time anyone would need to roll out of the Army. That you have 60 days leave is your commander's fault. You need to buckle down and start making decisions. I would verify that this QMP bars you from USAR or NG service. Talk to your retention NCO about it. I do not think the overweight was the only reason you were asked to leave. Use your leave to find a job or get enrolled in school or a training program. Put this part of your life behind you and don't take it personal. Rocky said it best: "It doesn't matter how hard you hit in this life, but how hard a hit you can take and still get back up." Good Luck!
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All QMP separated soldiers receive an RE-4 code. non waver-able. when you got your notice of denied further service you had 3 options
1. Appeal ( followed by involuntary separation if you lose)
2. Inv. separation you will ETS by 1st day of 7th month
3. Vol. separation (out in 90 days)
what they don't tell you on the paper is that if you choose the 7 month (actually 6 ) option your 3 letter discharge code on your DD214 reads that you were separated for failure to meet or maintain army standards. However if you select to get out in 90 days you get coded as separated for needs of the army. Seems like no big deal but it severely effects your ability to get federal jobs.
It really is a whole lot of unfair there are soldiers who are being looked at for poor NCOER's from 10 years back
1. Appeal ( followed by involuntary separation if you lose)
2. Inv. separation you will ETS by 1st day of 7th month
3. Vol. separation (out in 90 days)
what they don't tell you on the paper is that if you choose the 7 month (actually 6 ) option your 3 letter discharge code on your DD214 reads that you were separated for failure to meet or maintain army standards. However if you select to get out in 90 days you get coded as separated for needs of the army. Seems like no big deal but it severely effects your ability to get federal jobs.
It really is a whole lot of unfair there are soldiers who are being looked at for poor NCOER's from 10 years back
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