Posted on Jul 29, 2019
Capt Michael Wilford
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Please understand, I am NOT bagging on the Army here, I am simply asking a question based on my own observations. I served two tours on two different Army posts and witnessed first hand how lower enlisted soldiers (PV1 through SPC) interacted with soldiers of higher rank (CPL through SSG) and I found their lack of respect and lack of discipline to be a bit disturbing. So, my deeper question is this; is this perceived problem of discipline due to the size of the Army as compared to the Marine Corps where we do not have this type of discipline issue, is it due to smaller unit cohesion, or is it something else? I am writing a white paper on military discipline and any information will be helpful. Remember, at the end of the day, we are one military with different missions toward the same end goal, so please do not use this thread as a means to bash other branches of service. I have not done that to the Army; I have great respect for the Army and for its mission and I am simply looking for others' observations about discipline.
Posted in these groups: Discipline1 DisciplineEnlisted logo EnlistedUcmj UCMJ
Edited 6 y ago
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SGT Russell Chewning
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Personally, I think it's do with American society moving away from being unquestioning of authority. Young people see politicians on both sides acting like complete and utter fools, and as such, are maybe a little less likely to buy the whole indoctrination spiel the Army lays on them in the early days.
They see a few wars, and absolutely nothing to show for them, except a few very rich white men, and a bunch of nutty conspiracy theories. Why should they have any confidence in their leaders? It's not like their leaders are proving themselves capable in any way, shape, or form.

Add to that, the sheer stupid lengths that many military leaders will go to in order to exercise authority. Case in point? Another discussion that has me all kinds of twisted, where a female is told by her Platoon Sergeant through her squad leader that she needs to wear a bra when OFF DUTY. And the vast majority of responding officers and NCOs in full support of the leader. This. THIS is one of the major reasons I could see lower enlisted joining the Army, and coming to the realization that they might just be surrounded by fools.

Now.. I am not saying the officers and NCOs ARE fools. Just indoctrinated into a HOOOOORAHHHHHHH!!-type mentality that just doesn't play with an entire generation of enlistees who are seeing America fall apart around them.
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CPT Ronald Scherick
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This problem is not unique to the army it is rampant in all parts of society. The liberal brainwashing of our youth has come home to roost the standards have been lowered across the board. everyone gets a participation trophy and no one can be disciplined for anything. We cant hurt feelings by giving grades in school or keeping score in sport events. This society in general is seing the bad effects of this in every phase of life. In schools the kids disrespect the teachers and even physically attack them. It was shown in Florida the sheriff was told by the politicians not to arrest kids on high schools because they wanted to try to show a reduction in crime rates under thier leadership. well the result was the parkland shooting where the shooter had double digit police complaints against him but never charged on any . But they were quick to blame guns for the problem. In New York city this summer the police had water and buckets thrown on them and were afraid to make arrests because the liberal mayor would not stand up for them and feared they would lose their jobs. In Washington state the radical Antifia wear masks while they protest and destroy property and attack conservative reporters who try to show their violent unlawful ways and they are defended by the liberal mayors and the police are told to stand down and let them brake the law because they are on the side of the party in power. The sanctuary state and city people demonize ice and do not allow the police to help them which makes it unsafe for everyone. Liberal colleges do not allow conservative speakers on campus and allow violent protests against them and the police stand by and watch letting the damage and injury's go unchecked. I can site many more examples. The really sad part is the main street media is run by them so you never hear of most of these problems . I believe this is part of the problem that allowed us to get to this braking point.
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PO1 Frank Downs
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It’s not just the Army the Navy and Air Force has the same problems.
The problem stems from a lack of leadership from above and enforcement of PC policies, If a junior has a conflict with a senior all he has to do is accuse the senior of sexual misconduct and the senior reputation is destroyed (guilty until proven innocence).
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SGT(P) Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic
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Inability to uphold the standard. Or just a blatant disregard for it.
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SFC David McAfee
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I'm concerned that changes in discipline may be the influence of both politics and PC Issues. Having served and currently my son serving the differences in discipline are blatantly apparent. I don't know the answer yet I'd tend to question if it were an issue of both society and potential repercussions on leadership, at every level, if PC concerns are the destructively stifling.
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MAJ Mark Steskal
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I was stationed at a Naval Hospital as a junior enlisted in the 70;s and knew sailors who would avoid certain walkways to reduce required saluting (and junior officers who would frequent certain routes to garner respect). In the early 80's as a Marine Artillery Officer when the Regiment was shooting at Ft. Bragg, I went with a couple of other LT's to clothing sales. We were not saluted by numerous SPC's and below despite being obviously commissioned (USMC wore shiny bars on lapels). In the 90's + in the Army, it would depend on where I was regarding respect of rank.
I think that it is about Command Climate. In the Mariines the respect of rank comes all the way down the ladder by culture. In the Army I think that although it is cultural priority, it tends to be more locally enforced by command and Staff NCO's. I believe the expectations are lowered from the beginning when it is more a question of numbers rather than quality.
On the other hand, in the elite units I have been associated or familiarized with in the Army (e.g. SF, Rangers, etc.), while the trappings of respect are less obvious, the cultural exhibitions are there (at least within the organizations; somewhat less for an outsider).
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SSG Senior Drill Sergeant
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There are a lot of discipline issue in the Army, one that I see is soldiers walk past infractions all the time some of this me be they are scared to say anything or they too do not know the reg. I also see people referring to pay grades and not ranks. As leaders we have to enforce these standards, the Army makes it easy there is a manual for everything.
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SSG Richard Brue
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It's because soldiers have cried so much to thier parents, and thier parents went and cried to thier congress members and that lead to NCOs getting told that we had to back off.
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SrA Alan Dirk Scott
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As I look back, to my basic training, the biggest take away was to not do anything to get my buddies killed. This brought unit and mission cohesion. It also brought the idea of self sacrifice for others and the greater good. It was transforming.
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SFC Howard Holmes
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Sir, I believe it starts in BCT. Prior to retiring I worked in a recruiting command and I had many soldiers return saying how lax it was, and many even stated how disappointing it was due to lack of discipline and challenge. There is also the issue with retention, they feel that if they are too harsh, they will not make retention goals which then get reflected on commander OERs, and other evaluation factors. Another factor is, with retention issues in certain MOSes there are some kids getting promoted way too fast. So as younger "more hip" young NCO's they don't hold their buddies (PFCs - Spec 4's) to a standard, either because they want to be friends more than they do a leader, or they simply don't know how to lead. Lastly, the command has to support the actions of the NCO, and this includes the Platoon Sgt. and Platoon Leader. When a soldier is a discipline problem, I believe that the squad/team leader also needs to be counseled as to why his/her soldier is lacking said discipline.
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