Posted on Jul 29, 2019
Capt Michael Wilford
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Please understand, I am NOT bagging on the Army here, I am simply asking a question based on my own observations. I served two tours on two different Army posts and witnessed first hand how lower enlisted soldiers (PV1 through SPC) interacted with soldiers of higher rank (CPL through SSG) and I found their lack of respect and lack of discipline to be a bit disturbing. So, my deeper question is this; is this perceived problem of discipline due to the size of the Army as compared to the Marine Corps where we do not have this type of discipline issue, is it due to smaller unit cohesion, or is it something else? I am writing a white paper on military discipline and any information will be helpful. Remember, at the end of the day, we are one military with different missions toward the same end goal, so please do not use this thread as a means to bash other branches of service. I have not done that to the Army; I have great respect for the Army and for its mission and I am simply looking for others' observations about discipline.
Posted in these groups: Discipline1 DisciplineEnlisted logo EnlistedUcmj UCMJ
Edited 6 y ago
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Sgt Michael Hearne
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As a brother "Gyrene" my observation of the Army today there appears to be more emphasis on the "Social Justice" equality of the our "liberal" civilian population. There appears to less family "cohesion" and less "religious" foundation in today's youth. In the past; most of our military had "Southern" roots with a religious foundation and a greater respect for authority. Since the "Sixties" the American youth has continued with the tendency to question and challenge authority figures. The Marine Corps has a longer period of time in "basic training or boot camp" which in turn instills greater respect for military discipline and authority.
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CH (CPT) Battalion Chaplain
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As a chaplain, I am somewhat in a different situation. Most soldiers, regardless of religion or faith, usually treat the chaplain with the upmost of respect and military bearing. With that said, as a Battalion Chaplain, interacting with the various companies of my battalion, I have witnessed numerous occasions where lower enlisted, E1-E4 SPC, lacked military bearing with NCO's and even lower commissioned officer ranks. I have witnessed time and again where an E2 will come up to our 1SG to speak with him and never think to stand at parade rest. But what's interesting is I find that to be true of soldiers who have been out of the BCT/AIT environment for some time. On the other hand, I have found new soldiers who have just come to us from AIT to still be in that mindset, and will stand at Parade Rest with our NCO's or at attention with me until I put then at ease. And lastly, once an E4 (successfully) comes back from BLC, they seem to get their military bearing back. The two cents' worth from a "dirty boots chaplain" who spends a great deal of time with the Joe's...
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Lt Col John Culley
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The Army has a morale problem because it keeps losing counterinsurgency wars as noted by Army Lt. General Daniel P. Bolger in his 2014 book entitled Why We Lost: A General's inside account of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Luckily in the Cold War the Soviets nuked themselves at Chernobyl so the Army can claim that as a win even though they went up against an opponent who was monumentally stupid.
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Cpl Jeff Ruffing
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Ok, Having experience in 3 different military organizations I feel I can answer your question based on my humble opinion and experiences. I was a Marine from 80 to 86, then in the Army from 86 to 92. I went from being a 0341 to a 52D. It seemed that the command, (E-5 and above) were more of friend, listen to you, try to please you, give you chance after chance. I saw behavior in the Army that would have had heads on the platter if they were Marines. Again, not ALL of the Army was that way. The combat arms segment were much hard core, but, from my experience the non combat arms were more in the touchy feel good sense. I believe, in my humble opinion, from what I experienced was a “ familiarity breeds contempt “ atmosphere. I never went out with my NCOs drinking with them, nor my officers. There was also the female issue. In the Corp, not so much interaction with WMs as I was interacting with female soldiers more often. So, there seemed to be a softer side. Again, I was in a non combat arms atmosphere, so it was different. Hope that helps
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SFC Robert Walton
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BASH ME if you want but I see it as a failure in the early 90's when the big draw down happened and had to rely on other resources to Maintain a fighting force. JMTC
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MSG Allan Davis
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The answer is simple; the Army promotes bad behavior, those under those being promoted learn by example. Mix in the lazy DOD civilians that can’t be fired and it’s a mix of nasty soup.
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CPL Henry Miller
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Best experience of my life, other than 5 children, 8 grands, 3 great grands. Draft driven military between Korea and Viet Nam. Airborne Combat Engineers part of soon to leave 11th Airborne, 2 years 24th Infantry. Top cadre WW2 and Korea vets. First Sgt jumped into Normandy, did Bastogne, jumped in north Korea. First issue of Military Code of Conduct. 12 - 15 years since WW2 Many family, friends, community combat vets. Numerous Gold Stars in small home town. Active VFW till they all died off.

You just did NOT give no shit to any NCO. First Sarge let it be known it was "HIS" Company. If you disagreed, he'd discuss it with you behind the motor pool at 6:00. I would have followed him anywhere.

I've seen discipline falter in my own family and society. In some ways I agree but there has to be a limit. When was the last time "We the People" had to make a sacrifice for the good of us all? Less than 5% have had military experience. Bring back the draft ! Or something similar.
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PV2 Glen Lewis
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I think it's partly caused by too much political correctness as well as a general feeling nowadays of no one has the right to tell me what to do or say. I'd say that would comes with lax rules and policies that have been put into affect to cow-tow to groups who feel they deserve special treatment because of race, creed, and color. The day when you saw uniformity in the Armed Forces is gone and it's not just in the Army.
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PO1 Michael Bruner
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It's generational. I saw the same thing happening in the Navy during the 90s and the 00s. Nothing like getting your a$$ reamed in front of a 3rd Class by your Chief for directing that petty officer to lead by example.
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Out could be due to the fact that each generation is degrading when it comes to certain values. Also could be an issue with recruitment standards. On college I learned about the labor pool, you can only hire what's available. Good luck with your paper.

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