Posted on Jul 29, 2019
Why does the Army appear to have a discipline issue with the lower enlisted ranks?
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Please understand, I am NOT bagging on the Army here, I am simply asking a question based on my own observations. I served two tours on two different Army posts and witnessed first hand how lower enlisted soldiers (PV1 through SPC) interacted with soldiers of higher rank (CPL through SSG) and I found their lack of respect and lack of discipline to be a bit disturbing. So, my deeper question is this; is this perceived problem of discipline due to the size of the Army as compared to the Marine Corps where we do not have this type of discipline issue, is it due to smaller unit cohesion, or is it something else? I am writing a white paper on military discipline and any information will be helpful. Remember, at the end of the day, we are one military with different missions toward the same end goal, so please do not use this thread as a means to bash other branches of service. I have not done that to the Army; I have great respect for the Army and for its mission and I am simply looking for others' observations about discipline.
Discipline
Enlisted
UCMJ
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 255
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If I had to hazard a guess, such disrespect is more likely to occur in places like Afghanistan, rather than other, non-combat areas. I've not looked for any peer-reviewed studies, etc., and this is simply my own opinion on the matter. (Similar things occurred during the Vietnam War...)
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I was in the military back n the 1970's and have not seen this unfortunate cultural decline in America, but I saw it coming. Recruiting commercials targeted less disciplined market researched pop culture fans to make recruiting quotas.
But I did not see how far it would go till I years later I earned my PhD and taught at two universities. Freshmen students who must have cheated they way high school math came to university unable to do 6th grade arithmetic, especially adding or subtracting fractions. In class they always come late and in class they exchange text messages rather than take notes and wait till the last day to do their homework and prepare for their final exams. When they fail they try to negotiate for a passing grade.
I think this decline in culture affects the military too.
But I did not see how far it would go till I years later I earned my PhD and taught at two universities. Freshmen students who must have cheated they way high school math came to university unable to do 6th grade arithmetic, especially adding or subtracting fractions. In class they always come late and in class they exchange text messages rather than take notes and wait till the last day to do their homework and prepare for their final exams. When they fail they try to negotiate for a passing grade.
I think this decline in culture affects the military too.
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From someone that was both Marine and a Soldier. In the Corps we are the best in the world. In the Army (beit active, reserve, NG), it's a joke! I watched Army Staff NCO's act like 6th graders, have complete disregard for the soldiers well being under them and yet demand respect while acting like a child themselves. How are young troops supposed to have any respect for their leadership when the leadership has zero discipline themselves?
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You know what you did not say? What kind of unit it was.
This shit doesn't fly in line companies.
But in Aviation, Medical, and Intelligence it does.
In aviation it is because of the relationship between the aircrew and maintenance, you piss mechanic off and you die.
In medical it is because the officers are not combat oriented and the relationship between the enlisted is very close.
In intelligence it is, generally, because the enlisted have more responsibility than an infantryman.
This shit doesn't fly in line companies.
But in Aviation, Medical, and Intelligence it does.
In aviation it is because of the relationship between the aircrew and maintenance, you piss mechanic off and you die.
In medical it is because the officers are not combat oriented and the relationship between the enlisted is very close.
In intelligence it is, generally, because the enlisted have more responsibility than an infantryman.
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I was a Reservist on active duty from Sept. 25th 2001-October 2003. I had a pvt call me “Dog” I saw privates and specialist totally disrespectful to an NCO when I asked the NCO why he didn’t jump on his ass he said it doesn’t matter his command doesn’t care and won’t do anything anyway.
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The Army has gone soft in my opinion. You have to be so concerned about their feelings , that what you say can be misunderstood and you end up on the carpet talking to the old man because you swore at some troop. The basic training I believe has not done us any justice. I as an E-8 had a E-2 fresh out of AIT , STAND AND TALK TO WITH HER HANDS IN HER POCKETS.....WTF IS THIS ...SERIOUSLY.
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The lack of respect comes before these individuals join the military. Many don't do it for "God and Country" but rather a good paying job with plenty of entitlement benefits. Today's military culture has changed from what it was; simple changes like discipline, mixed genders, physical demands, active homosexuals, even KP duty. Compare nobodies lack of respect with Combat Veterans, you'll see a big difference.
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I would say it is because of the government getting involved with what we do as soldiers and not letting us run the Army the way we were taught to run it.
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