Posted on Sep 2, 2016
COL Lee Flemming
36.4K
416
252
22
22
0
B4fda610
The human capital and financial costs of long-term military intervention is extremely steep. Have we built our military to fight, or is there a real expectation that we nation build too? Are we resourced to nation build? The reality is obvious, but I am not sure if the end result is expected, predicted or even understood at the time of deployment. We all know the definition of insanity...
Avatar feed
Responses: 75
CPT Pedro Meza
2
2
0
Edited >1 y ago
As a Civil Affairs Operative and MTT team leader in Latin America, military intervention works well only when you engage the locals and gain their support, otherwise we just become their bitches. The same applies to getting teenagers to clean and keep their rooms clean.
(2)
Comment
(0)
COL Lee Flemming
COL Lee Flemming
>1 y
CPT Pedro Meza we have had some success in Non-kinetic interventions!
(1)
Reply
(0)
CPT Pedro Meza
CPT Pedro Meza
>1 y
Even in mild kinetic interventions some success was accomplished but it depended on the negotiators on the ground that applied the rule of going Native wisely.
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Chief Executive Officer (Ceo)
2
2
0
Edited >1 y ago
That's an easy one. It's because politicians are idiots and have no concept what leadership is and especially what the relationship between the government and the military should be.

The military exists to protect America and it's interests. Those interests are typically obtained through diplomacy. When diplomacy fails it falls to the military, should the government decide that interest is important enough to require military action. AT THAT POINT, it is the job of the politicians to create the governments goals and objectives and give them to the military. That SHOULD BE the last communication between the military and government except for status updates until those goals are met and the military should use everything in its power to obtain those goals in the shortest amount of time with the fewest casualties possible.
The government has no business creating ROEs, strategy, any type of military policy or anything else within the military.
(2)
Comment
(0)
CPT Pedro Meza
CPT Pedro Meza
>1 y
Yet the military needs to have experienced leaders too, take a look at the book Why We Lost by General Daniel Bolger.
(2)
Reply
(0)
SGT Mary G.
SGT Mary G.
>1 y
I would add that government also has no business tasking "contractors" to do the dirty work it wants done, and worse putting contractors in the position ordering military folks to do it! Part of the chaos of establishing no clear cut chain of command accountability, is that our government, the government of the nations in which we have intervened, the American public - in fact the entire world - blames the U.S. military for decisions and actions of contractors used as the State Department's "private" unaccountable military force.
(2)
Reply
(0)
CPT Pedro Meza
CPT Pedro Meza
>1 y
SGT Mary G. - You are 100% on mark, but the government is whom? You know whom I mean.
(3)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Boyd Welch
2
2
0
America has a fundamental problem. Our leaders wrongfully believe that other countries want what we have. Democratic thought processes elude them because their cultural leadership systems are ingrained and socialized differently. We try nation-building using our military as ambassadors. The military should serve one role and one role only: To ensure complete and utter capitulation by the enemy by destroying will and ability to fight. A tenacious and resourceful enemy wins against us by winning the political war.
If you are not willing to scorch the ant mound and kill everything in it, you will allow the enemy to divide and multiply.
Korea,Vietnam and every succeeding war bears witness to the folly of police actions...(in my opinion)
(2)
Comment
(0)
COL Lee Flemming
COL Lee Flemming
>1 y
SSgt Boyd Welch you are right Sir! That is just a really bad assumption!!
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SFC David Davenport
2
2
0
Nation building is not the military's responsibility. The State Department is responsible for nation building. The military can and should assist but they should be in a supporting role to the DoS (not the host nation). There are some good examples of successful nation building in the past but no modern examples success come to mind. In recent cases of Afghanistan and Iraq we tried to fundamentally change the geopolitical culture of the nation in ways they were not ready to accept. Democracy is not the right answer for every country. For almost all of human history it has been the minority form of government. the best advice I could give to the country would be to keep any military engagement brief and to the point and avoid nation building. For example handing control of Afghanistan to the Northern Alliance once the Taliban were defeated in Afghanistan made more sense from a military perspective. The second part is choose your targets very carefully. Is Libya and the region better off now than before we pushed to topple the dictatorship? Just my thoughts and opinions. Military intervention works when it is done right and for the right reasons.
(2)
Comment
(0)
COL Lee Flemming
COL Lee Flemming
>1 y
SFC David Davenport ah, the State Department...a little help please!
(0)
Reply
(0)
SFC David Davenport
SFC David Davenport
>1 y
The primary arm of DoS that engages in nation building is USAID. There a quite a few well written articles on the subject that can explain better than I on this post.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt Justin Vickers
2
2
0
I am a firm believer that we should only have one simple mission statement. Deter the enemy if possible, kill them if it is not. We should not be involved in someone else's wars and we shouldn't be lingering for decades spending trillions of tax payer dollars and our soldiers lives trying to police nations that do not want to be policed. We should continue to maintain the most powerful force in human history and pray it is not needed. Fighting in Iraq has not made America prosperous. It has not solved the problem with world peace. In fact we have had the opposite effect. We should be a bit more isolationist in nature and stay out of foreign conflicts with a few exceptions. There will be times when we must intervene, but very few. When those things happen, and they will, we should have the same approach. Deploy, kill the enemy, and then come home.
(2)
Comment
(0)
COL Lee Flemming
COL Lee Flemming
>1 y
Sgt Justin Vickers you sound like an Infantryman!!
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
1SG Jay Vanderford
2
2
0
As a retired and Veteran 1SG I'll chime in here briefly, I think great examples of how to do things the right way are Japan and Germany, and I know, everyone uses those as examples, however, they were both huge successes, that came a great loss. I think that when were intervene in a country without occupation for an extremely long time, its like placing someone in a correctional facility, once returned to their own devices they tend to revert to what they know. Based on that analogy, success stories will be far and few between in our global endeavors if we continue the correctional like methods we currently employ. Lastly, we impede the natural progress of the countries we go into, or change their course in history all together, countries must be afforded to undergo their own civil strife to the end that best supports their way of life's morals, values, norms and belief system, not ours, ours is for the American dream, not necessarily everywhere else, people that share our beliefs in freedom and democracy move here and assimilate.
(2)
Comment
(0)
COL Lee Flemming
COL Lee Flemming
>1 y
1SG Jay Vanderford your brief incursion into this conversation was more than fruitful and rings absolutely true...
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CH (COL) Command and Unit Chaplain
2
2
0
Because after the State Dept. has already failed and it has become necessary to commit US forces, we give control over policy, rules of engagement, etc. to the State Dept. instead of the military.
(2)
Comment
(0)
COL Lee Flemming
COL Lee Flemming
>1 y
CH (COL) (Join to see) ...and don't forget the fact that the military doesn't get to define success! Great points Rick!
(1)
Reply
(0)
SGT Mary G.
SGT Mary G.
>1 y
The irony of that would be humorous CH (COL) Rick Morrow, if it weren't so sorrowfully true!
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
1SG Al Brown
2
2
0
I think it usually does work, when acting within the initial mission related task list. The military doesn't create it's own policy concerning how the U.S. maintains or creates long term relationships. The military always acts on behalf of a civilian who signed an order. I wonder if the State Department would stand up to the operational scrutiny that the DoD has withstood over the generations. Probably not in my lifetime.
(2)
Comment
(0)
COL Lee Flemming
COL Lee Flemming
>1 y
1SG Al Brown I am glad to hear that no fault lies with the military as a major partner in ensuring conflict resolution!!
(1)
Reply
(0)
1SG Al Brown
1SG Al Brown
>1 y
Fair enough COL, I was vague. I honestly believed that you answered your own question. I defended the military's impossible task of planning, invading, intervening and then attempting to rebuild the infrastructure of a nation that we have very little in common with, utilizing young and culturally untrained Officers and NCO's to execute the mission. (Disclaimer: I was a Warfighter III contractor for several years after retirement as a civil affairs and engineering mentor) My point in reverse: If the U.S. was invaded and occupied by the "Krasnovians" and they send a young Officer or NCO who couldn't speak English to set up a meeting with me in order to "re-align" the crops that I grow on my farm, or religiously adjust my children's educational standards, or my wife' s wardrobe, or confiscate my weapons, I would serve them ice cold Coca Cola, agree wholeheartedly with their terms, then start building homemade claymores as they walked away. And there is the reality that is so elusive. You can Colonize, Nation build, or stay out of it. But when you pick your poison, you better have an antidote in your OPORD...
(2)
Reply
(0)
CH (COL) Command and Unit Chaplain
CH (COL) (Join to see)
>1 y
COL Lee Flemming - The only responsibility that the military has in conflict resolution is to break the will and destroy the capacity of the enemy to continue the conflict.
(1)
Reply
(0)
1SG Al Brown
1SG Al Brown
>1 y
Concur with the mission statement COL. This is a great topic, but as I'm really not up to snuff on what is being planned these days, I'll move along. I'm very thankful for the opportunity to vent once n a while.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SFC (Other / Not listed)
2
2
0
Nation building is a major aspect of the US military's strategic policy. From multi-national training engagements like the one going on in Poland, to digging wells and treating disease in West Africa, the US military is part of a multi-agency effort to help stabilize certain regions of the world. In order to accomplish that, not only do you have to help provide and bolster security, you have to help develop infrastructure, reinforce foreign economies, and maintain a persistent presence.

Otherwise you end up with what happened to Afghanistan in the 1990's. A failed state that is rapidly overrun by radical extremists. Does our military have the capability to nation build? Absolutely, and the bulk of that capability lies within the Special Operations community. Recently Special Forces, Civil Affairs, and Psychological Operations were unified under a single command to help better coordinate their efforts. The Marine Corps also has taken their fledgling steps into enhancing their capability to interact by, with, and through foreign elements to increase security in at risk nations with persistent mil-to-mil relationships.

Furthermore, the Army has regionally aligned many of its divisions. This allows for soldiers to learn the pertinent languages and cultures of their assigned regions so they can be better prepared to assist with infrastructure issues, deal with complex relationships between different ethnic groups, and identify economic issues. This regional alignment also allows for senior staff to develop better working relationships with other agencies such as the State Department or NGOs like USAID that may be better prepared to handle some of the issues.
(2)
Comment
(0)
SFC (Other / Not listed)
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
COL Lee Flemming - I define it as a violent extremist organization that had transnational aspirations but is stuck in the Lake Chad region and has lost much of the territory they gained in 2014. I define it as Abu Sayyaf being on the run and hiding in the jungle. I define it as al-Shabab also being similarly contained despite their transnational aspirations. I further define it as a success because it is the military of the affected countries that now have the lead in dealing with their own problems after they received US military assistance. Niger still has control of the Diffa region and is assisting their neighbors to the south, the Kenyans and Ugandans have seriously disrupted al-Shabab's efforts to gain control of the region, and Duterte is the Trump of the Philippines.
(2)
Reply
(0)
COL Lee Flemming
COL Lee Flemming
>1 y
SFC (Join to see) - you have the last word on this one Sir! Your unique perspective as it pertains to this RP question is absolutely admirable. Thanks for your posts :)
(0)
Reply
(0)
SFC (Other / Not listed)
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
COL Lee Flemming - I enjoyed the discussion as well.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SGT Mary G.
SGT Mary G.
>1 y
Your discussion was educational for readers COL Lee Flemming and SFC (Join to see)!
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Philip Roncari
2
2
0
This seems to be the mantle that we have put on since World War II becoming a super power has led this Nation down many different paths not all that we followed have turned out so well for us,but the underlying premise is always I think to make the world a better place,I might have a Pollyanna outlook on this theme but think I read some where about life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
(2)
Comment
(0)
COL Lee Flemming
COL Lee Flemming
>1 y
SGT Philip Roncari by no means would I say Pollyanna...you have simply stated fact and probably illustrated the expressed purpose of our leadership going into these interventions!
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close