Posted on Sep 2, 2016
Why doesn't military intervention in foreign conflicts work? Or does it?
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The human capital and financial costs of long-term military intervention is extremely steep. Have we built our military to fight, or is there a real expectation that we nation build too? Are we resourced to nation build? The reality is obvious, but I am not sure if the end result is expected, predicted or even understood at the time of deployment. We all know the definition of insanity...
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 75
Need to define 'work'. Listen to admin mouthpieces from Sharon Rice & WH press secretary, CJCOS, GOs down to E1 snuffie, and everything we do or have done to date has 'worked' and we have been 'successful' and 'accomplished the mission' on continual basis. We are just great.
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COL Lee Flemming The results are obvious. The military accomplishes their assigned mission. Then, the politicians enter in w/ grandiose concepts.
Small unit actions prevail. ('Horse Soldiers'). The Big Army, the state department and the CIA all wish to take a leak on the fire plug also.
Until we achieve some modicum of cooperation between our agencies and Intel providers we will never have a lasting effect.
When we do set a country 'up'; Japan and Korea for instance, they are only too quick to challenge us on aspects of trade and prohibitions of product. Any sense of gratitude or future cooperation becomes mired in their successes!
Isolationism is no answer, accountability might be, if we possessed the fortitude to demand accountability.
Small unit actions prevail. ('Horse Soldiers'). The Big Army, the state department and the CIA all wish to take a leak on the fire plug also.
Until we achieve some modicum of cooperation between our agencies and Intel providers we will never have a lasting effect.
When we do set a country 'up'; Japan and Korea for instance, they are only too quick to challenge us on aspects of trade and prohibitions of product. Any sense of gratitude or future cooperation becomes mired in their successes!
Isolationism is no answer, accountability might be, if we possessed the fortitude to demand accountability.
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COL Lee Flemming
CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025 outstanding points, we genuinely have the military operations down...it's the other stuff that eventually trips us up.
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COL Lee Flemming
PO1 John Crafton - as you know this conversation is absolutely not new. We have extremely smart people that recognize the shortfalls in planning and goal-setting. There is something else that is preventing us from realizing these lessons learned!
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it does work with some foreign and not so with other foreign they have law clause of how to with this or that country etc. , now a group of foreign countries ,gads that could be the main dilemma , same goes for wh leadership . for instance I extend a great thank you to the male that a week before went into the towers (at least one of two towers and gave a very serious pay attention people to them of how to get out in case of fire. not normal for fire drill at those place before~! the drill just before and during layers of,if biden shut it all down ,, while flight of some continued . interesting question above can be read many ways...aside of missing gold few before ....then Benghazi ,not just that just more layers. but the stand down ~~~~~??? i high doubt that your true patriotic Americans would of shunned any attempt referring back to the same question above. 911 made them all question ,same from other countries ,especially about high up leaders ,cia and fbi /the nsa stuff was know about before att ,anyone with computer just has to rethink whom around the world had computers or ibm or cryptography etc. Benghazi #1 from a Canadian Welsh with American niece.
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Military intervention does work in civilized societies, if we are talking Islamic countries, that's a slippery slope at best, but here goes a few thoughts. Now that I have retired and have taken a closer look at the world and see it through a clearer lens, my thoughts are this.
Germany first, look at them today and the past decades since the war. I spent nearly half my Army career there and they are a great people and have like minded values morals and beliefs. Japan, again, returned from the ashes a proud industrious people that also have like minded values morals and beliefs. Korea...
What I am saying here is this, we are now engaged against an ideology, you have to do some research, what is Islam, why did Mohammad go to Medina, why has there been no such thing as a peaceful Muslim since 622, why does their very religion teach to kill all non Muslim believers (the basis to become radicalized is in the teachings of the Koran and Hadith) and much more.
Learning these things will help you understand that we can never win, nor can we ever make a difference in the war on terrorism. One dies 10 more emerge, there Is no head of the snake when dealing with an ideology such as Islam.
I know that sounds defeatist, yet, I was around when the 1972 terrorists attacked at the Munich Olympics, and it continues back from then as well. They are, and always will attack Infidels as opportunity presents itself, and people let their guard down. This is not a war, we cannot kill enough, we cannot destroy enough, we cannot rebuild enough to change the teachings of Islam, so this question,"Why doesn't military intervention in foreign conflicts work? Or does it?" cannot apply to a conflict where Islam is concerned.
The only path as I see it is containment, where ever they spread there will violence, its beginning now across Europe, Its been hitting the U.S. and will increase, its time for our leaders to wake up and realize this fact, this is a no win for us, something they themselves must sort out. Think about that for a minute, if we kill anyone there its spawns more, if they kill each other, at some point it ends.
I'm sure as I stated there will be many that agree and disagree with my statements here, but both history and current status are my guides, cheers.
Germany first, look at them today and the past decades since the war. I spent nearly half my Army career there and they are a great people and have like minded values morals and beliefs. Japan, again, returned from the ashes a proud industrious people that also have like minded values morals and beliefs. Korea...
What I am saying here is this, we are now engaged against an ideology, you have to do some research, what is Islam, why did Mohammad go to Medina, why has there been no such thing as a peaceful Muslim since 622, why does their very religion teach to kill all non Muslim believers (the basis to become radicalized is in the teachings of the Koran and Hadith) and much more.
Learning these things will help you understand that we can never win, nor can we ever make a difference in the war on terrorism. One dies 10 more emerge, there Is no head of the snake when dealing with an ideology such as Islam.
I know that sounds defeatist, yet, I was around when the 1972 terrorists attacked at the Munich Olympics, and it continues back from then as well. They are, and always will attack Infidels as opportunity presents itself, and people let their guard down. This is not a war, we cannot kill enough, we cannot destroy enough, we cannot rebuild enough to change the teachings of Islam, so this question,"Why doesn't military intervention in foreign conflicts work? Or does it?" cannot apply to a conflict where Islam is concerned.
The only path as I see it is containment, where ever they spread there will violence, its beginning now across Europe, Its been hitting the U.S. and will increase, its time for our leaders to wake up and realize this fact, this is a no win for us, something they themselves must sort out. Think about that for a minute, if we kill anyone there its spawns more, if they kill each other, at some point it ends.
I'm sure as I stated there will be many that agree and disagree with my statements here, but both history and current status are my guides, cheers.
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Conflict? We the US, meddling in the affairs of the nations of the Middle East and N. Africa are causing the ,"CONFLICT!" The US Military, the mightiest on this Planet, has been turned into and used and abused as the, "Attack Dog" for the interests, not that of the People of the United States but the Interests of the Bolshevik-Zionist Apartheid Theocracy of the Terror State of Israel! Thanks to our, 'Spineless' representatives in the Congress and the Federal Government who are nothing but the SERVANTS of the Bolshevik-Zionist International Kosher Nostra! Read; "America's Misadventures in the Middle East." and "America's Continuing Misadventures in the Middle East." by CHAS W. FREEMAN Jr. One time US. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia! Truth and Knowledge, IS POWER!!
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SFC James Tihanyi
Why CPT? Have You anything against the 1st Amendment? Are You a Closet-Zionist, who places the interests of a foreign nation ahead of ones own? What is going on, in this "ones the greatest country on the planet"? $38 billion to Zionist Israel to modernize, upgrade, make more lethal their WMDs, (Nuclear, Chemical and Biological), to be able to continue to terrorize the people of Palestine and their neighbors, while taking away $140 million from the Children, Families of our used and abused, military Personnel, for MRW, (Moral, Recreation and Welfare) Programs, like at Fort Jackson where I had my Basic and AIT in 1962. There are no funds to help those Military Personnel who are being sent to the Middle East, and who do the dirty work of War, at times murdering innocents, and become victims of war, developing PTSD, or getting maimed? Some 20 to 22 of our active and retired fellows, are committing suicide daily, over the past 4 to 5 years. No help, not enough monies are available for, the VA, so that those who need it, could get prompt and proper care. Maybe our, 'Good Friend' the Zionist Israel, should send back some of those funds, $billions, that our, Spineless' congress has sent to them, to show us, that they are true Friends of ours! Don't hold your breath!
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SFC James Tihanyi
Why CPT? Have You heard of, the 1st Amendment? One question? Are You a Zionist? Maybe with Dual Citizenship, US-Israeli? I have known such, in the Communist paradise of Hungary, from where I escaped in 1956, where athe Hungarian Jewish Leadership, that kept the Christian Nation in the Soviet Orbit, with Terror, many
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Capt Jim Sower
I think Mr Tihanyi has a pretty good handle on the SECONDARY driver of our misadventures in the Middle East, etc. The PRIMARY reason we're there is our arms industry and defense contractors. etc. Anyone who has trouble digesting that notion can note that Boeing, etc have some sort of subcontract factory in EVERY fucking electoral district in the United States. They own the Congress lock, stock and barrel.
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Sir, because intervention is only a Band-Aid solution. While it can be successful in the short term, unless the local populace is wiling and able to carry on the long term solution (or WE are willing to carry out the long term solution...which nowadays we are not), the situation usually devolves back to where it was pre-intervention. Interventions rarely address the core issue that caused the problem in the first place.
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Intervention works if and when the military is given the freedom that they need to bring the entire country to it's knees like we did in Japan and Europe!! Otherwise we become engaged in protracted warfare and nation building. We didn't learn from France's failure in Vietnam so we had to suffer the same mistake and humiliating lesson. Then we tried it in Somalia and lost again. Now we've continued on the same path in the Middle East. Until our civilian leadership is willing to face the reality that the only way to win in the Middle East is complete and total subjugation of the culture we will not win there.
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Emerald S
japan and europe was NOT inter v e n t ion , that was survival + helping friends ! and they needed the help, the usa can claim they won the war #2 ,u can have the win moot point those over in other countries at those times needed anyone with supporting abilities = yes many risking their own lives(the risk had many meaning to those whom interacted the job) . that was not an Intervention effect. P.S. when you're into the civilian section of life ~!, that ain't no hand embraced intervention zone . and if you 'all wish to become political ====then start with community election and see how that works went putting you mo on the ballot'~ PS ===that is not an intervention either..........at least while just taking an order to do this or that , most can have comfort in blaming others, but wow, how could it possible be the problem with other world leaders which create the strife. back then is not now ! nowtime, one country may abstain from inter-ven-t ion for lack of gain example:/trade /tech development etc etc. war is never an piddly intervention nor is the loss of amazing humans . sfc your job is not that easy either ,world politics one hella lot more is required ,knowledge is paramount in e v e r y facet . hopefully continue in the development , ps to col anon =i have typed this
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I guess you do not know history . So let me educate you . See WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, Kosovo Iraq, Afghanistan etc.. The answer is win the war and if possible help rebuild but that is it. The last eight years it's like we have been fighting NOT TO LOSE just like the early day's of Viet Nam . You either win or leave but never half step your way to victory.
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COL Lee Flemming
Lol, thanks for the history lesson! And education? The question is not a reflection of opinion or a value judgment. It was meant to drive a discussion. Your comments are well-received and valued!!
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PFC Kimberly LaVoie
mmmmmmm.....seems to me that WW1 ended with no occupying force in Germany, and the treaty conditions set the stage for WW2. The partitioning of the mid East is still having a global impact to the current mess over there. WW2 ended with Germany totally worn out and the nation recovered when it became clear that the USSR was a bigger problem than anticipated. Japan was not so devastated, but, the emperor was allowed to stay and the population was conditioned to follow his orders. Korea is still causing problems. We fought to win in Vietnam until Walter Cronkite said we couldn't win, after that we just hung around until it became politically possible to walk away.
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If you are asking specifically about US military intervention, I think the first thing we must realize is that not everyone thinks as we do. We Americans feel that we are the greatest country in the world with the best of everything, and we do; however, not everyone wants what we have to offer. From the beginning, they have only known one way to live and for them it has worked. Maybe not as we would like it to have, but that have come to terms with their lives. When we go in somewhere, we try to change everything to a more democratic way of life because we know that its works for us, not understanding that some people are good with the status quo. Also, after we leave, most places don't have the money, economy, knowledge, etc. to maintain what we have put in place, so it falls back into the same rut. I have spent a good amount of time in eastern europe, specifically Romania. When communism first fell, everyone had high hopes that things would go back to the way they were in the 1930s. I have spoken with many of the old folks there who long for the days of communist control only because that is what they know. At least during that time they had food, jobs, homes, etc. Now there is rampant government corruption, no jobs and no real positive outlook on the horizon even though they are a free country now. I think possibly the better option for the military would be to sit back and let the indigenous people figure out what works best for them and assist if they ask for help.
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COL Lee Flemming
"They have known one way of living and it has worked...," outstanding! Thanks for this share and contribution to the discussion Sir!!
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