Posted on Dec 20, 2015
Why doesn't the Army Frock all of its Senior NCO? The Navy frock theirs. Why are we still in the past?
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Promotable
Frocking
Promotions
Posted >1 y ago
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A few thoughts on frocking.
- Purpose/summary. Basically a frocking gives an officer/NCO the authority to wear the rank, in some cases obtain the authorities of the rank, but not receive the pay.
- Definition. Frocking is a US military term for commissioned or non commissioned officer selected for promotion wearing the insignia of the higher grade before the official date of promotion (the "date of rank").
- Authorizations. There are approval levels, requirements and Congressional limitations on frockings. In other words, a Soldier can not be frocked just because they are promotable. Restrictions include but not limited to: on approved/confirmed promotion list, not flagged (suspension of favorable personnel actions), not entitled to higher pay/allowances, authority to wear grade of rank will not be recorded in official orders.
- Why doesn't the Army frock all of its senior NCOs? See above. Just because a frocking is technically authorized does not mean it is required in a certain situation or position. We frock because it is needed, not wanted.
- Purpose/summary. Basically a frocking gives an officer/NCO the authority to wear the rank, in some cases obtain the authorities of the rank, but not receive the pay.
- Definition. Frocking is a US military term for commissioned or non commissioned officer selected for promotion wearing the insignia of the higher grade before the official date of promotion (the "date of rank").
- Authorizations. There are approval levels, requirements and Congressional limitations on frockings. In other words, a Soldier can not be frocked just because they are promotable. Restrictions include but not limited to: on approved/confirmed promotion list, not flagged (suspension of favorable personnel actions), not entitled to higher pay/allowances, authority to wear grade of rank will not be recorded in official orders.
- Why doesn't the Army frock all of its senior NCOs? See above. Just because a frocking is technically authorized does not mean it is required in a certain situation or position. We frock because it is needed, not wanted.
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SFC Charles Elam
Great response sir, how is the school house treating you? Need you back down here at Hood blowing s*&t up.
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SGT Tim Fridley
This reminds me of the Acting Jacks as we called them in the late 70s early 80s where SPC4s were given the stripes of a SGT and the responsibilities but little else as they were only acting SGTs but still only got the respect of an E-4 by the other NCOs
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MSG (Join to see)
Sir, I agree with everything you said. However, there are circumstances where a NCO with a lower sequence number isn't frocked to 1SG because no positions are available. So if a SFC (P) is frocked to 1SG but another SFC (P) has a much lower sequence number and will certainly get paid for the rank well before the 1SG who was frocked, why must that SFC have to give them the customs and courtesies of I.E. parade rest?
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SFC Michael Hair
I took a First Sergeant position for a reserve unit deploying to Iraq. I was not MOSQ for the position. I couldn't be boarded they saiD because I wasn't MOSQ. So basically they got their SFC/ 1SG without having to pay me and then to add insult I couldn't wear thE Diamond of a 1SG. So when I went to Battalion and Brigade ops briefs or any meetings I was treated less than a real 1SG. It's bullshit you do the job and the command picks you over Other E8 but they still screw you. Oh reenlist and go to MOS school and you will get promoted they said. I said FU and Retired. Piss on that!
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Frocking has been in and out of vogue on the Navy side. It was always "out" whenever I was selected. For the most part frocking is limited to those who are placed in a higher ranked billet. We see that all the time when they frock Captains to Admiral when they assume the Flag billet. So you get the responsibility without the pay bump. For officers, their UCMJ authority doesn't increase until officially promoted. Frocking has a long history aboard ship. You put on the rank, you were in charge of more things and people, and that was it. I would expect to see an incoming SEL frocked.
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1SG (Join to see)
I see it was not a good example for an Army native to see it and not know if it was right.
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SSG (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) - I was on the E-7 list when I was hit in Afghanistan. Under the rules at the time, 2007, I never wore the rank but was retired as E-7.. and receive E-7 retirement pay. I would have had to hold that rank for 2 yrs as I understand it to retire as E-7 but since I was on med-hold, recovering that is how they did it then.. I am not sure if that is still the case.. If I would have been frocked pryer to D.O.R. I am not sure how they would have handled it.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
My Dad when He was in the Navy at one point as an ET1 He became an acting Chief, ETC and performed Chief's duties but never wore the rank or got extra pay for that. it would have been permanent but He chose to leave the Navy after 11 years service. He had a wife and son (Me) that He didn't have in His earlier Navy years. He did remain in a high tech field very much like what He did in the Navy so His Navy skills still applied to His civilian Career.
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