Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
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I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
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SMSgt Operations Superintendent
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The Air Force was never intended to be a ground fighting unit. Back in the day, AF bases were protected by Army units for that very same reason. The ground fighting component of the AF is SF. Among our many duties, being the infantry of the AF is one of them. I started my military career in the Army and I will tell you that the AF as a whole was never designed to operate like the Army or Marines. The culture is completely different, and for good reason. The AF could not operate under the same culture as the Army or Marines. In SF, weapons are a tool for us. For the majority of the AF, a weapon is not a tool that they use in their day to day duties. ANd frankly, it should not be. I used to be CATM, and I can tell you that keeping an M-4 away from most AF members is a good thing.
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SMSgt Operations Superintendent
SMSgt (Join to see)
1 mo
MSgt (Join to see) -
Not quite sure what your point is. You are correct, all jobs are equally important in the AF as we support each other. What I mean by "vast majority" is carrying a weapon every single day. None of the AFSC's you mentioned carry a weapon while performing their day to day duties.
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SSgt Steven Imlay
SSgt Steven Imlay
20 d
SMSgt (Join to see) - Until I became an instructor, I carried an M-16 or M-60 everyday except when I worked Law Enforcement then I carried a 38 everyday. As an instructor we were armed whenever we went out with the flights or were doing range duty.
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AB Roger Zauner
AB Roger Zauner
12 d
Shouldn't the SMSgt's statement read, "... keeping an M-4 away from most Navy, Army, Marine ... members is a good thing?"
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SMSgt Donald Lister
SMSgt Donald Lister
44 m
As one Senior to another ... what Air Force are you talking about ... I have seen male and female wash out of basic training for not qualifying on their primary and secondary weapon ... go have another bourbon ... you know not what you talk about!
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PO1 John Miller
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Real_firefight
Completely in jest. I have seen people in all branches who should be permanently downloaded (having their weapons privileges revoked).
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SSG Edward Tilton
SSG Edward Tilton
4 mo
Could be good advice. The Marine has probably expended all of his and you aren’t doing anything with yours
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SFC William Linnell
SFC William Linnell
1 mo
You come across it when you least expect it. Running the zero range and the qual range for the adviser school. 2 of my SSG's came to me needing help with a (2 National Guard members) SSG and a MSG, who they can't figure out what their doing to not zero their weapons. So I took the SSG. Putting him back to fleet zero. I had him fire 3 rounds. Had him clear but stay put. I went out to check his shot group. Made him fire 3 more rounds. repeat. After those 6 rounds I figured it out. Instead of staying center mass, he was chasing his rounds on paper. So had him shoot at another target, repeat steps from earlier. 3 shots repeat, 3 shots repeat. In 9 round i had him zeroed. I went down to the target, did his site adjustments, repeat. Kept telling him to fire center mass at all times when zeroing. He was happier than a hog in mud. Now, that MSG. He wouldn't listen to me. I pulled him off the range, took him to my 1SG and he took care of him. Some people.
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PO2 Edward Pate
PO2 Edward Pate
24 d
MSgt Rob Miller - Some of us sailors depending on our role were very proficient with small arms. I'm old enough that I qualified expert on the M-14 and the 1911. I was part of the ships security and self defense force and also a qualified nuclear weapons sentry, pretty good for an ET! LOL.
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CPO Arthur Weinberger
CPO Arthur Weinberger
24 d
SGM Frank Marsh - The poor chair service person was scared. He will probably develop PTSD and let his mommy help him through the remainder of his enlistment.
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Col Joseph Lenertz
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Everyone sees things through their own experiences. If I were an AF Security Forces officer, I might share your opinion. As a pilot, I was required to qualify annually on my assigned personal weapon, the M-9, because aircrew members deploy more than other AF personnel. So far that makes sense. So why not go to the much bigger effort and expense of making us like the Army or Marine Corps and force every Airman to qualify annually? To put it as simply as possible, because there is a fixed amount of time and money, and there isn't an Air Force base in Afghanistan or Iraq or anywhere else we fight. When deployed, we generally either to deploy to large Airbases in-country with our Army, Navy, and Marine brethren (who are responsible to protect the base) or out-of-country where the threat is much lower (SA, Qatar, Bahrain, etc). I know there are exceptions, especially for our Special Forces community...but then they are qualified on their personal weapons, aren't they? In order to be the best at Our Job as Airmen, we spend our time and money on training aircrew, mechanics, and all the other support functions necessary to keep airpower supporting the Joint Force Commander. If we spent lots of time and money to be like the Army and the Marines, we would be better infantrymen but worse airmen.
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SSG Richard (Rick) Dana
SSG Richard (Rick) Dana
21 d
Back in my day (1965) Vietnam era, as a aircraft loadmaster on the C-130 A we qualified at Lackland AFB TX with the M14 & M16. We qualified yearly.
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SSgt Clarence Pennington
SSgt Clarence Pennington
3 d
Qualified with M4 & M16 at Lackland A.F.B while in basic training. As an Automatic Flight Control Specialist, I never held a gun again while in Service . Even while stationed in Thailand and Vietnam.
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Col Joseph Lenertz
Col Joseph Lenertz
3 d
SSgt Russell Stevens - OO-rah! I'm sure you don't hold the record, but you may be close.
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SSgt Russell Stevens
SSgt Russell Stevens
3 d
MSgt Gilbert Jones - Yes, I often worked with Air Force Combat Control teams.
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