Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
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Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
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SMSgt Operations Superintendent
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The Air Force was never intended to be a ground fighting unit. Back in the day, AF bases were protected by Army units for that very same reason. The ground fighting component of the AF is SF. Among our many duties, being the infantry of the AF is one of them. I started my military career in the Army and I will tell you that the AF as a whole was never designed to operate like the Army or Marines. The culture is completely different, and for good reason. The AF could not operate under the same culture as the Army or Marines. In SF, weapons are a tool for us. For the majority of the AF, a weapon is not a tool that they use in their day to day duties. ANd frankly, it should not be. I used to be CATM, and I can tell you that keeping an M-4 away from most AF members is a good thing.
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CPO Nate S.
CPO Nate S.
3 mo
My father was part of the flight crew on B52s. I don't ever remember him talking about qualifying with a weapon in the 50s/60s when he was in. The PJs and MPs are the only volks on the AF side I knew who had weapons on a regular basis. I think Security was separate from MPs, you know the folks that guarded some of the "special" aircraft.

In any event, just an old Navy Chief. But the AF could function in the same way as the USA or USMC. They have a very different mission. But, I do like PO1 John Millers meme. 100% spot on. In fact, I had some actual AF friends years ago (i.e., 1980s) suggest that is what they would do LOL!!!

Also, every pilot USA, USN, USMC, USCG, USAF that I have ever known had to qualify with the TO weapon 9M, 45, etc. as part of their overall survival skills, they needed to keep sharp. So, Col Joseph Lenertz Make a great and very serious point.

In any event, since the original post > 7 yrs old any comments I make are just "piling on!" Whahoo!!!!
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SSgt Kelly D.
SSgt Kelly D.
2 mo
I laughed when I read this as I went to AF basic training in the early 80’s. All of us learned how to shoot and disassemble and reassemble the M-16. It was a blast as I love to shoot. Unfortunately, some of the people on the line should never be allowed to handle a weapon but how do you know until you get them out there. After basic, we didn’t touch the weapon again so what was the point other than getting my expert ribbon…I don’t know. I do believe that we should all be trained and continue to qualify every year for readiness purposes as we have no idea where we would be stationed next.
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SrA Dan Frady
SrA Dan Frady
2 mo
Agreed from old LE troop.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
1stSgt Nelson Kerr
2 mo
SSgt Kelly D. - Training to tactfully prepare some and keep proficient to a rifleman standard takes weeks of traing per year, with people on the flight line working 12 Hours a day and 6 or 7 days a week where is that time coming from? Being a infantryman is a full time job
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PO1 John Miller
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Real firefight
Completely in jest. I have seen people in all branches who should be permanently downloaded (having their weapons privileges revoked).
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PO2 John Harker
PO2 John Harker
2 mo
Col Joseph Lenertz My shipmates will keep you informed of incoming threats. I'll be in Fox 5 holding a perimeter so ya'll can coordinate with one another as needed. Or I may be in the engine room ensuring the ship's radar has power to spot those threats and launch you some backup.
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PO2 John Harker
PO2 John Harker
2 mo
PO1 John Miller That's where we need you. I've got your six.
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TSgt Infantryman
TSgt (Join to see)
1 d
Sgt Neil Foster - I'll bet 4 to donuts he was a democrat
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Sgt Neil Foster
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Col Joseph Lenertz
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Everyone sees things through their own experiences. If I were an AF Security Forces officer, I might share your opinion. As a pilot, I was required to qualify annually on my assigned personal weapon, the M-9, because aircrew members deploy more than other AF personnel. So far that makes sense. So why not go to the much bigger effort and expense of making us like the Army or Marine Corps and force every Airman to qualify annually? To put it as simply as possible, because there is a fixed amount of time and money, and there isn't an Air Force base in Afghanistan or Iraq or anywhere else we fight. When deployed, we generally either to deploy to large Airbases in-country with our Army, Navy, and Marine brethren (who are responsible to protect the base) or out-of-country where the threat is much lower (SA, Qatar, Bahrain, etc). I know there are exceptions, especially for our Special Forces community...but then they are qualified on their personal weapons, aren't they? In order to be the best at Our Job as Airmen, we spend our time and money on training aircrew, mechanics, and all the other support functions necessary to keep airpower supporting the Joint Force Commander. If we spent lots of time and money to be like the Army and the Marines, we would be better infantrymen but worse airmen.
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Sgt Neil Foster
Sgt Neil Foster
29 d
SPC Lee Taylor - "Ur ASVAB scores" were high... REALLY? You obviously don't know how to write, or use correct punctuation.

You are great at reciting 'war stories' but don't have a CLUE about researching facts. TRUE, a German U-Boat, UC-97 was found in the Great Lakes... but that is only HALF the story. The boat was taken by the US Navy after WWI, and used as a publicity tool. It was later TOWED into the middle of Lake Michigan and sunk for target practice by the USS Wilmette.
So, son, I suggest you wipe your nose, and LEARN HOW TO WRITE AND RESEARCH, lest you continue to look like a fool
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Sgt Neil Foster
Sgt Neil Foster
29 d
1stSgt Nelson Kerr
Actually, the US Navy acquired a U-Boat (UC-97) and used it for publicity. They later towed it into Lake Michigan and sunk it during target practice!
https://www.businessinsider.com/german-uboat-at-the-bottom-of-lake-michigan-2021-8
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SPC Lee Taylor
SPC Lee Taylor
28 d
Sgt Neil Foster - Yes my ASVAB was very High only found two people so far with higher scores and they were only a couple points higher and could not go much if any higher. OH and KID I did better than 89% of people on my college entrance exams.
Which puts ur snotty nose way behind me. And with my dad there who had been an award winning recruiter when he was in when he and the guy that signed me up saw my scores the very 1st words out of my recruiters mouth, and this is word for word exact. If they offered u West Point would u take it. And I said NO.
And kid My dad was a better air plane mech. than u were at any job u did. Never had a failure on any plane he and the crew he worked with worked on and everyone of them got job offers from Boeing.
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Sgt Neil Foster
Sgt Neil Foster
28 d
SPC Lee Taylor - You really are a DUMB SHIT with an overinflated ego, and microscopic balls.
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