Posted on May 28, 2015
Why don't all members of the Air Force have to be fully qualified to be a rifleman in case of hostile events?
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I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Rifleman
3P: Security Forces
Air Force
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 907
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I can't believe that I'm seeing people defend the AF'S lack of training and proficiency. Warfare is asymmetrical, if it gets bad everyone fights, everyone needs to be proficient. The I'll rely on somebody else mentality is exactly how an entire unit gets wiped out or a base gets over run. The strength of the US military is in part because everyone should be cross training knowing not only your job but the person above you, and in this case below if that's how you view the grunts (at your own peril).
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
Are you willing to give up some of your airstrike to allow that to happen? That is the choice at hand
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LtCol Bruce Janis
If your base is being overrun, how many aircraft are gonna get off? And do you really believe that the air support is going to the front while your base is under attack? Really???
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Exactly...said that for years. And then at Al Jaber I wasn't allowed to arm up as I went to the airport in the middle of the night. I started out in the Marine Corps and couldn't believe the short sightedness.
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It doesn't interest them. They think "it's not my job" and that's a fail. I always taught the Airmen and NCOs to look beyond and think outside of the box. When I was EET, that was the biggest write-up.
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I think the Airmen have this rationale that they are in corporate environment ergo, we don't carry weapons because our Security Force, the Army or Marines will defend us. As pointed out by SSG Christ, there is going come a moment, when a terrorist cell or if the base is overseas, enemy troops will breach the wire and wreak havoc, while some Airman is fumbling around with his/her weapon. It's a great way to utilize those metal caskets, kept in storage at the mortuary affairs unit. They should emphasize more weapons training at USAF basic training because, ready or not, the frontline is everywhere in this never-ending war on terrorism.
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In the words of an acquaintance "the base had guys right outside, they told all Airforce personnel to load their weapons and prepare to destroy equipment, an airman looked at me and said how do I do that?"
Training, Training, Training. I think that it is imperative that all service members be prepared to defend themselves tactically. We are in an era where the enemy can get on our bases, even the big ones. I don't know much about the Air Force but I am assuming their boot camp has some kind of weapons familiarization?
Training, Training, Training. I think that it is imperative that all service members be prepared to defend themselves tactically. We are in an era where the enemy can get on our bases, even the big ones. I don't know much about the Air Force but I am assuming their boot camp has some kind of weapons familiarization?
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Lt Col Stephen Petzold
We get even less grenade training than we do rifle training! Although many an USAF airman would run to the sound of gunfire, rather than away from it, leadership still views anything remotely related to base defense as a Security Forces mission and not something for the average airman. But after many an average airman has done convey missions through Iraq I think the mindset of the airman and leadership are at odds.
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SSgt (Join to see)
It's imperative that every service member know the ends and outs of basic weapons handling. What are the reasons they aren't? Budget? I call bullshit on that. The Marine Corps have less that a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the Air Force budget and even the most POG MOS I can think of (packaging specialist... they pack for PCS I guess) is a basic rifleman and equals every year.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
The folks with the equipment that we REALLY don't want the enemy to have get certified regularly on how to destroy it.
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LtCol Bruce Janis
Lt Col Stephen Petzold - He may run to the sound of gunfire, but if he is not trained to use a weapon, what is he going to do when he gets there? Hand to hand against an AK? Just become KUA that much quicker?
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Coming from the active Army I thought it was really strange that the only time you went to the range was when getting ready to deploy.
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Most assume it would never happen...being that i'm a comm troop if our base were attacked and overrun usually we'd be the last to die, but i'm not an idiot...I trained hard with what little time I got with my M-16 and I never shot marksman, but on the live fire range I never missed. I even trained some NATO allies in Afghanistan on Short Range Marksmanship and Vehicle Egress...Its always best to be prepared...but to the USAF...I think it just comes down to money.
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CPT Ray Doeksen
Billion dollar bombers, no budget for bullets. How about get rid of the soft-serve ice cream and Captain Crunch from the dining hall and spend that on weapons training?
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
Money as in manpower. there are simply not enough hours in the day now without adding tasking
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LtCol Bruce Janis
Again, the USAF has no night training at all?, as does the Army and USMC? 5PM, time to clock out!
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Air Force personnel in general are pampered. They aren't allowed to live in Army quarters because they're "substandard". if they must, they get paid extra for the inconvenience. I'm thinking I should have joined the Air Force lol
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MSgt (Join to see)
When training at Monterey my squadron lived in old Army dorms. The Army had brand new spiffy, 1-per-room dorms on top of the hill with 2 per bathroom. The Air Force hadn't even started going that route yet overall. We were 2-4 per room with shared bathrooms on each floor that maybe worked. The main dorm building wasn't large enough so my flight lived in the basement of the condemned building next door. Yep, Army had it worst alright.
I've also lived in 20-person tents with a barely-there heater in near-freezing temps in constant rain and mud side by side with Marines on the back side of an air base.
I've also lived in the old dorms on Bagram in Army camps while the Army lived in the new dorms just built with WiFi.
On a day to day basis the Air Force might have better setups. But that's a might, especially these days, and isn't always the case. So quit the whining about that already. If that's your biggest complaint about another service you need to see to the stick up your rear. That, or check the chip on your shoulder because you didn't/couldn't go that route.
I've also lived in 20-person tents with a barely-there heater in near-freezing temps in constant rain and mud side by side with Marines on the back side of an air base.
I've also lived in the old dorms on Bagram in Army camps while the Army lived in the new dorms just built with WiFi.
On a day to day basis the Air Force might have better setups. But that's a might, especially these days, and isn't always the case. So quit the whining about that already. If that's your biggest complaint about another service you need to see to the stick up your rear. That, or check the chip on your shoulder because you didn't/couldn't go that route.
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SPC Nathan Freeman
I'm not complaining as much as you are. I could have gone that route. I'm speaking in generalities here.
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SSgt Allan Stringer
My tent with window openings but no windows in November in Korea is being pampered?!?!? No heat in the tent. Cold water in the shower tents?!?! Pampered??
All in all, better than growing up with a two-hole outhouse in Minnesota, and water carried from the barn into our two-rooms built inside a machine shed with ice forming on the inside of the windows.
Viet Nam with slit trench latrine? Still a step up from the two-holer in -40 degree Minn. winters. Pampered, indeed!!!
All in all, better than growing up with a two-hole outhouse in Minnesota, and water carried from the barn into our two-rooms built inside a machine shed with ice forming on the inside of the windows.
Viet Nam with slit trench latrine? Still a step up from the two-holer in -40 degree Minn. winters. Pampered, indeed!!!
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LtCol Bruce Janis
In Da Nang the USAF officers lived in a base in town, had A/C quarters, and a bar. As a Marine officer, I lived in a foxhole in the rain, no bar. Guess who got paid for sub-standard housing.
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Story time:
In 2013 I was on JBMDL getting ready to go to Africa. We received training over on the McGuire side of the base on anti-terrorism. We were living large, seeing how the other half lives, with their Cadillac Chow Hall and snazzy gym facility. On the way back from chow, I saw one of the funniest things I have ever seen in the military:
There were some airmen walking around with brightly colored plastic fake M-4s. They were getting ready to deploy also, and they were getting "acclimated" to carrying a weapon around - or so I was informed when I asked.
Now this in and of itself wasn't all that funny; I understand the idea behind it and the USAF doesn't just have weapons laying around for training purposes. What WAS HILARIOUS was that they had attached Surefire flashlights and in one case a PEC-2 (not sure if that was a real one or not) to their fake weapons with electrical tape.
LMAO.
I get that we're trying to be all "Joint" and stuff, but let's keep to what we are good at. The Air Force owns the sky, and the men and women on the ground service those aircraft or the facilities for them. That's what you do. If you're in the USAF and are told to pick up a rifle and pull a post, expect that if you run into me I will train you and make damn sure you know what the hell you are doing with that rifle if it comes to that.
In 2013 I was on JBMDL getting ready to go to Africa. We received training over on the McGuire side of the base on anti-terrorism. We were living large, seeing how the other half lives, with their Cadillac Chow Hall and snazzy gym facility. On the way back from chow, I saw one of the funniest things I have ever seen in the military:
There were some airmen walking around with brightly colored plastic fake M-4s. They were getting ready to deploy also, and they were getting "acclimated" to carrying a weapon around - or so I was informed when I asked.
Now this in and of itself wasn't all that funny; I understand the idea behind it and the USAF doesn't just have weapons laying around for training purposes. What WAS HILARIOUS was that they had attached Surefire flashlights and in one case a PEC-2 (not sure if that was a real one or not) to their fake weapons with electrical tape.
LMAO.
I get that we're trying to be all "Joint" and stuff, but let's keep to what we are good at. The Air Force owns the sky, and the men and women on the ground service those aircraft or the facilities for them. That's what you do. If you're in the USAF and are told to pick up a rifle and pull a post, expect that if you run into me I will train you and make damn sure you know what the hell you are doing with that rifle if it comes to that.
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TSgt (Join to see)
That was the air advisory academy, although i'll be honest...that's hilarious, we do some dumb stuff sometimes. I was stationed at JBMDL from 2009-2014.
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1SG (Join to see)
CMSgt Tom Ledbetter - They probably used what they had available. If they really knew what they were doing, they'd know to use 100 mph tape.
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Well war is scary and we can't have our Airmen/Airwomen getting nervous! We need them to fly us to the war zones so we can get medals and awesome stories to lie to women/men about! lol Just kidding Air-buddies! I WUV YOU DIS MUCH!!! <-----------------<3-------------->
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