Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
368K
4.45K
1.94K
565
565
0
Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited 9 y ago
Avatar feed
Responses: 914
MSgt Don Dobbs
0
0
0
Today Airmen are taught the M-16 from early on in Basic They now carry an M-16 dummy weapon from I believe the first Week Of Training to the 6th WOT. They are now also deployed to "The Field" during warrior week where they learn Air Base defense chemical warfare and self aid buddy care. Things have changed a lot for AF trainees since I was an MTI. I agree with the intent of the post because when I deployed to Somalia in 92 we had Airmen that were clueless abut their weapons and how to set up a tent etc. The main drawback to this training is the actual experience of deployment. If an Airman serves several years without deploying he/she loses the skills taught in Basic.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Samuel Johnson
0
0
0
I totally agree. I was in a Combat Crew career field. I was a member of a mobile RADAR team who would set up near the FEBA. Our RADAR was a big target and we knew it. We trained often on many weapons and knew we became 11B's (Infantry) when the RADAR was gone. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best!
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
1stSgt Nelson Kerr
0
0
0
OK h where are you going to find the training days to prepare fore something that last happened half a cetera ago? Since seduces are dammed full now what skills are you going to drop off the schedule? The likelihood of an AB being over until is too low to give up other mission capabilities to prepare for.
(0)
Comment
(0)
SrA Clifford Burnett
SrA Clifford Burnett
>1 y
It can be Over-run in an instant. Be it at an overseas locale or even stateside. How well did they fair when the Enemy was in their mist in Colorado ? All of our Men & Women in Uniform, SHOULD, in my opinion be fully trained and capable to use arms when needed. In defense of the Mission/Air Base and fellow service members. Not just the "Combat" AFSC's/MOS's assigned to each and every service member.
(0)
Reply
(0)
1stSgt Nelson Kerr
1stSgt Nelson Kerr
>1 y
SrA Clifford Burnett - as o asked before if you ensure everyone is ground combat cape who is going to service the aircraft and complete the mission. Being fully capable of ground combat is a full time job. I know that my folks that were already working 60 hrs a week would have had trouble fitting in another 49 plus hours a week.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SrA Clifford Burnett
SrA Clifford Burnett
>1 y
May we agree to disagree on this ? We all were very capable of doing our primary functions while maintaining full readiness to protect/defend our selves our mission,ect. Without any traumatic hard-ship to our-selves while doing so. In this day and age, it's fool-hardy to think that mastery of combat arms is NOT needed by any of today's personnel. Look back to the errors made prior to WWII and the repeated errors after. Complacency will be our Military down-fall in all branches, Air Force especially. IMO.
(0)
Reply
(0)
1stSgt Nelson Kerr
1stSgt Nelson Kerr
>1 y
SrA Clifford Burnett - I gather you ave never spent any time with the Army or the Marines? getting and maintain to skills to be fully competent in ground combat is a FULL TIME JOB and in the modern environment a very skilled job. USAF security forces get to that level on a very restricted set of missions and that is much what they live to do.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Cyber Transport Systems
0
0
0
I'm comm and every time I do CATM or when I was in Korea and we did exercises I couldn't help but think how screwed I would be with other people from my unit. I guess from growing up in the Midwest and the fact that my dad took me shooting I knew how to hold a weapon. I've had to as a brand new airman help some senior NCOs put their bolt carrier group back in the right way, or clear a jam, and it really doesn't inspire much confidence. Also, when we had exercises and the SF airmen had all the blanks in the world and they wanted us to yell bang bang it turned into a joke. I wish the AF would change how they do it but I know with today's budget it won't.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
A1C Robert Chabot
0
0
0
if the army , or marines need insurtion or evacuation, they hop on an aircraft, and "ditty maw" to get that aircraft airborn, somehow, the whole airbase ,is involved, all the grunts need to do is " have our 6. keep them off us, we'll get you outta here if need be. if you can't shoot a gun, you can't shoot a gun. air police esspecially, are wannabe warriors, from their world of warcraft video games. very capible of standing in front of cars. but if the base needs defending, we always had the army on speed dial. former c-130 crew chief 1971-1975
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CPL Infantryman
0
0
0
I'm just gonna leave this here... there will always be someone that doesn't know how to use a rifle, its sad, but true regardless of branch. (watch until about 1:30, rest is commentary)
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Aerospace Maintenance
0
0
0
Your question is incorrectly asked. All USAF personnel are trained/qualified on the M-16/M-4. Select personnel are trained on M-9 based on Carrerfeild, Duty position, or Special Duty assignment.

Your question should be, "Why aren't USAF personnel proficient on their primary duty weapon?"

The answer is simply mission requirements. The Air Force by design is not a forward fighting force. Air Force deploys to a secure location then generates alert aircraft flying force.

If you ever get a chance read your bases OPLAN requirements. It will answer a lot of your questions.

(Yes...carrerfield is misspelled, but I'm not re-typing half this post to correct it.)
(0)
Comment
(0)
Sgt Joe Butler
Sgt Joe Butler
>1 y
My experience was far different than what you describe. Though I got an Expert Marksman ribbon in basic training, I was nowhere near "qualified" in the real sense of the word. One day at the range is what we had in 1966. That was it. You sure have to define "trained/qualified" to realistically assess what the Air Force does.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt Judy Leonard
0
0
0
Every member I new had train and qualify every year
(0)
Comment
(0)
Sgt Joe Butler
Sgt Joe Butler
>1 y
I was in the Air Force a long time ago. I had one day of training on the M-16, got the Expert ribbon, and never got to touch one again.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Sgt Judy Leonard
Sgt Judy Leonard
>1 y
We had to qualify once a year
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Mike Hogan
0
0
0
I agree with you. I was in communications during my years of service. I was told to be sure to destroy the comm gear if we got overrun. WTF give me an M16 so I can defend my post and myself while destroying the gear. Anyway, government is to cheap to give ammo to the AF. My kid deployes to the big sand box tomorrow. He was allowed to fire the M4 for 40 rounds. That was the extent of his training.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Steve Shook
0
0
0
These are the Instructions for AF weapons qualification and Arming Categories. Category A is Pararescue, SF, Combat Weather, TacP, Red Horse, etc,. Category B is everyone else that fills a deployment billet, they receive weapons training before deploying. The AF does not have the CATM personnel or training ammunition budget to qualify every Wrench Turner, Personnel or Services troop annually.

Additionally based on my experiences during the First Gulf War its not that safe giving everyone in the Air Force or the Army a damn rifle, we took them away from the tourists about a month in, the Army just never gave their admin and mechanics bullets and they still almost blew up the entire base.

"2.4. Weapons Training Requirements. AFI 36-2226, Combat Arms Program, contains specific training requirements for each arming group, personnel selected for overseas assignments, and personnel assigned to fill a unit type code (UTC) where qualification with duty
weapons must be met prior to authorizing personnel to bear firearms. AFCFMs may impose additional firearms proficiency or sustainment training policies once personnel are weapons qualified in accordance with AFI 36-2226. Only personnel task-certified through combat arms sections are authorized to conduct live-fire proficiency/sustainment training; refer to AFI 36-2226 for proficiency training requirements. Unit commanders must ensure the following training is completed.

2.4.1. Qualification Training Frequencies. Generally, Group A personnel with an arming requirement must complete weapons qualification annually and Group B personnel tasked to deploy complete weapons qualification during pre-deployment Just-in-Time training.
Specific weapons qualification training requirements and frequencies are directed by AFI 36-2226.

2.4.2. Overseas Assignments. Before being stationed overseas, personnel identified by personnel processing code (PPC) must receive small arms weapons training IAW AFI 36-2226 and use of force training IAW section 2.5. of this instruction.

2.4.3. Mobility Forces. All personnel assigned to fill a UTC receive small arms and use of force training as prescribed for their respective qualification group.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close