Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
369K
4.45K
1.94K
565
565
0
Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited 9 y ago
Avatar feed
Responses: 914
SrA Client Systems
1
1
0
Depending on unit & base for active,reserve, and guard this is no longer the truth , as of Nov 2015 the Air force is starting to crack down and get more stricter on weapons qualifications especially if the unit happens to be a deploy able unit . The Air-guard unit I was with had given individuals three chances at weapons qualifications, and If you fail to qualify a third try around your career was at stake or on the chopping block depending AFSC. How do I know this? because it happen to me. I can't speak for all units, but weapons qualifications is starting to become just as important as PT fitness qualifications and its being added as a way for reduction in force to weed certain individuals who may not be a good fit within the Air force culture.

My suggestion is to anyone who failed weapons qualifications the first time, I would suggest going to a private range for practice while getting private instructions under a qualified instructor depending on the area of residence
(1)
Comment
(0)
SSgt Security Forces
SSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
I wish this was true but it is not the case...
(0)
Reply
(0)
SrA Client Systems
SrA (Join to see)
>1 y
It's the case depending on your unit. Each unit is slightly different or maybe I was just red flagged. I'm going by own experience which are the facts for my particular situation. I just remember one day one my supervisors reminding about weapons qualification and you failed to qualify they couldn't use you which is the truth and one of the reasons why I was honorable discharged
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SrA Client Systems
1
1
0
This is no longer the truth as Nov 2015 The Air force is starting to crack down and get more stricter on weapons qualifications depending on unit and command. The Air-guard unit I was with had given individuals three chances at weapons qualifications and If you fail to qualify a third try around your career was at stake or on the chopping block depending AFSC. How do I know this because it happen to me. I can't speak for all units, but weapons qualifications is starting to become just as important as PT fitness qualifications and its being added as a way for reduction in force to weed certain individuals who may not be a good fit within the Air force culture.

My suggestion is to anyone who failed weapons qualifications the first time, I would suggest going to a private range for practice while getting private instructions under a qualified instructor depending on the area of residence
(1)
Comment
(0)
CPT Ray Doeksen
CPT Ray Doeksen
>1 y
It is sad if servicemembers need to go to outside sources for basic marksmanship training, ranges and resources ... just as they shouldn't need to have a private gym membership to stay in shape.
(0)
Reply
(0)
MSgt Joe Marcom
MSgt Joe Marcom
>1 y
True, but it's also true that the military as a whole is undermanned and overworked. It isn't possible to get all of your training (including some B.S. stuff), , keep your medical file current and still get your regular job done. IMO, manpower is the major issue.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Darren VanDerwilt
1
1
0
There's more to it then just packing heat. You need training, lots of it. A bunch of Airmen trying to do their daily tasks while humping a rifle, or even packing an M-9 on the hip would be very problematic. I had advocated that the Air Force should keep it's people better trained in the use of firearms with each duty section maintaining an armory. The problem here is funding. To do this, each section will have to have a secure locker with an individual able to issue out weapons. Then there's the requisite loading barrels and arm/disarm procedures. Then consider all these Airmen requiring training in small unit tactics, communication, movement, shoot-don't shoot, etc., with training drills. These are perishable skills. I prefer an avionics technician to concentrate on fixing airplanes.
(1)
Comment
(0)
CPT Ray Doeksen
CPT Ray Doeksen
>1 y
If they don't need to be fighters, and they aren't suitable to be deployed to an FOB, then make it a DOD civilian job. Otherwise, skip the drill and ceremonies and shoe polishing and brasso, and teach them to shoot something.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SSgt Security Forces
SSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
what about "the profession of arms"
(1)
Reply
(0)
MSgt Darren VanDerwilt
MSgt Darren VanDerwilt
>1 y
Look. I believe that all members of the military should be well versed in the use of arms. Read about the German assault on Crete, had the British airmen been armed and trained, the Germans may not have been successful. Also, the linear concept of warfare, front lines versus rear area, died when airpower was introduced. The modern battle-space is not limited by distance or platform used. A computer virus can have far greater strategic impact, making a laptop or smartphone just as much a "weapon" as an M-4 carbine or B-2 bomber. Except in rare instances, a jack-of-all trades is a master of none. Not everyone can be a fighter pilot, infantryman, aircraft mechanic, etc. Reality does not reflect gameplay in "Call of Duty" or the "Battlefield" series of games. As it is, the Air Force is sacrificing man power for shiny weapons system program. The current fleet is suffering reduced mission capability rates as a result. The Air Force has far bigger fish to fry at the moment.
(1)
Reply
(0)
1stSgt Nelson Kerr
1stSgt Nelson Kerr
7 y
SSgt (Join to see) - In the AF those "Arms' have wings and can kill everything from an individual to a nation.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt GoatDriver Ram
1
1
0
The AF is 75% technician oriented and when it comes to being caught between a rock and a hard-place as it was back during Tet, it doesn't take long for the AF tech to catch on the metal end of the rifle points toward the evil-doers rolling over the parameter wire. Nope! the AF is not to be 100% PJ qual'ed and that AF program is way over-board in SEAL related training. Thanks for your concern and we will do better with the general AF population twd M-16 proficiency .
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SrA A.A. Hall
1
1
0
I don't know what's up with the new Air Force, but what I'v seen & heard they make me discussed. When I was in we all went thru rifle training & had to go through it every 6 - 12 months. I even have a ribbon for small arms excellence & proud to say I keep up on my hand gun & rifle skills. Even have taught myself to shoot left-handed as well. I honestly don't know where the Air Force is heading, but it doesn't sound or look good. Sgt. E-4 USAF 31st FMS
(1)
Comment
(0)
MSgt Harold Robinson
MSgt Harold Robinson
7 y
SrA Hall, your a smart airman. Stay smart, stay qualified and keep moving forward and set the example. You will be noticed as you appear to be the exception rather than the norm. Good for you. The USAF will survive and if I can and did, anyone can. Difference was that I was prepared and much on my own. You seem to have figured it out. Good for you, good for the USAF.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
TSgt Liza Kazee
1
1
0
Having been deployed twice as an Army asset, even though I was Air Force, I agree that all members should at least be proficient with at least one of the weapons listed. During my 1st deployment I spent a few days at COP Keating and knowing how to use your own weapon as well as others if needed was vitally important. The following year the COP was overrun. During my 2nd deployment our FOB was hit daily, like clock work. I was glad I knew how to handle and take care of both my weapons. It'seems an important thing that all military members should at least have a basic knowledge of.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Maj Security Forces
1
1
0
Aae0a60a
That's an age old problem. It wasn't that much of a problem during the 24 years I served because we weren't deploying to combat theaters all the time. I served 24 years, 11 years enlisted in Telecommunications. I qualified on the M-16 in basic and then qualified again when deploying to Okinawa. I never touched a weapon after that until I qualified again in OTS. I got in a lot of range time and experience cleaning weapons as an SP and carried a 16 for two years working missile security.

If I were still in, even in Telecommunications I would want as much range time as I could get especially if deploying to a combat theater.

What's my personal weapon now? It's this GAU. And yes I can easily strip it and clean it.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt Joe Butler
1
1
0
I was in the Air Force from 1966 to 1970. When I went in, I did think we would get more training in weapons and hand-to-hand combat. We had one day at the range after classroom on the M-16. Though I did obtain the Expert Marksman ribbon, that may have been dumb luck. We had no hand-to-hand combat training. When I was in we had the shortened basic due to Vietnam but I think that was a mistake. I agree with you completely that the Air Force should do a lot more to make every Airman capable of properly using rifles, handguns and hand-to-hand fighting.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Devon Saunders
1
1
0
If a Airman can't take care of a weapon and what's required to care of it and use it, that's a sign of a shitty instructor... Maybe YOU The Air Force CATM instructor needs to look in the mirror.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
LTC Hardware Test Engineer
1
1
0
I am fully capable of accurately firing my assigned weapon, plus I fire my privately owned weapons to maintain/improve my efficiency. However, if things ever get so bad that an O4 supply officer is having to pick up a rifle and fight off the mongol hordes, you are already having a very bad day and the best option is to find the nearest operational vehicle and GTFO. just sayin.....
(1)
Comment
(0)
SrA Clifford Burnett
SrA Clifford Burnett
>1 y
This type of attitude just makes the point more clear, in regards to insuring proficiency in ALL arms for Base and Personal defense.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close