Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
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Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited 9 y ago
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SGT Arthur Tompkins
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In 2004 they had an Air force Unit pulling escort service for supplies to LSA Diamondback in Mosul. They would use Tampa down to Bagdad. They would always come back with some trying stories.
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Sgt Paul Nadas
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Here are my thoughts from my own personal experience. I joined the Air Force at age 17 in 1963. I 'qualified' as Expert in marksmanship in Basic Training, but admittedly I had the advantage of both already being a keen shooter who had been well-trained in the handling of 'small arms' courtesy of my time as a Boy Scout, and having the advantage of extraordinarily keen vision (20/10) I seem to recall that stateside, the weapons we used on the various ranges for 'qualifying' were 'clapped out' old M2 .30 caliber WWII era carbines. In some cases these rifles were so worn out that standing behind a shooter, you could actually see the arc of the bullet in flight(!). Cut to Viet Nam where I arrived for my 'tour' in October of 1965. I was issued a brand new Colt Armalite AR-15 (M-16), several clips, and some ammo, plus an old Colt .38 'Special' Police revolver and ammo for it. I received no training in either weapon, nor had I ever held the brand new (M-16), having seen it fired only once while at 'survival training' at what was then Stead Air Force Base near Reno, NV before shipping out. Army and Marine troops were still being deployed with the M-14 which was quite a good, accurate weapon, but heavy and not particularly well-suited for the kind of terrain and operational requirements that they faced 'in country.' What happened was kind of 'epic.' After being deployed for months 'out in the boonies' (relative to the sprawling Than Son Nhut Air Base outside Saigon), I had occasion to return to the base. In the interim, the base had come under attack one night and in the ensuing panic and disorder amongst untrained, unprepared, undisciplined, Air Force troops deployed there (what we derisively referred to as 'Saigon Warriors') The results were predictable: more Air Force casualties from 'friendly fire' than from the enemy. (That said, the Air Police deployed as Security for the base who faced the brunt of the attack by the VC and the USAF dog handlers acquitted themselves well.). That incident spelled the 'End' of giving weapons to everyone and anyone deployed to VN. When I showed up at the base with my M-16 and Colt revolver on a Western-styled 'gun-slinger' belt, I was regarded as an 'Outsider' and....inherently 'dangerous.' It was laughable, of course, but....I think the point I am trying to make is that if one is deployed to a 'Combat Zone' as a member of a military force, one should not only be equipped to defend oneself from the 'enemy' but also be well-trained and conversant with all proper procedures to be an asset in case of an emergency and not a Liability to oneself and one's fellow troops. (End of Long Winded rant....LOL! ;-)
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Maj Walter Kilar
Maj Walter Kilar
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I wish HQ USAF would listen to these rants. I enlisted in the mid-1990s when the Air Force was still winding down from the Persian Gulf War and was recovering from a massive RIF. Our deployments before 9/11/2001 were usually to Prince Sultan Air Base, Saudi Arabia, where we were not required to carry M-16s or M-9s due to the concentric rings of security. Most Airmen at the time only fired the M-16 at most once per year due to a shortage in funds for training, range time, and ammunition. Many Airmen I deployed with after 9/11/2001 had gone a decade with only two days of M-16 training total. Fast forward to 2017, and I still encounter officers and enlisted who have fired the M-16 for a total of four days per decade--usually during Combat Airman Skills Training (CAST) or other deployment training. When I think of CAST, I think of the countless hours of classroom training via PowerPoint, and poorly structured training in the field where the only thing I learned was to bring more bug spray. When the average Airman meets a contractor in Afghanistan, he or she will find that the contractor had 10x as much marksmanship training and will know how to drive an armored vehicle through Baghdad in reverse for one mile while taking fire. The summary here is that change must come from the top. The Air Force would need to prioritize "combat support" training starting in Basic Military Training, and periodic training at large training centers with a better curriculum. Periodic training should come every few years regardless of whether an Airman is deploying. For almost two decades, "combat support" training in the Air Force has been rather ad hoc and inconsistent throughout the career fields.
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COL Arthur Kaff
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It appears the Air Force is picking up on the concerns you have referenced to some extent. I understand the Air Force now requires completion and qualification for all during a rifle qualification course on the M-16 in Air Force basic training.
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SSgt Liam Babington
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Quite frankly when I was in, and was deployed we were qualified before we left home station! With that said, we are technically focused, not infantry
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1stSgt Dexter Swanstrom
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When I retired from the AF in 92 there were two categories regarding weapons training. Cat A was SF LE, pilots, any person required to carry a weapon on a daily basis to guard high value items ( supply types moving drugs etc). Cat B was pretty much everybody else. You were required to qualify on the M-16 in basic. Later when you went overseas you received training on the M-16 enlisted, M-9 officers. Once over seas you went once a year to requalify. You were also taught the basics, clearing, cleaning and of course disassembly and assembly. ( yes I had one student who could not assemble the three basic parts groups of the M16). You were also taught ammunition packaging. How to identify what the caliber was how it was stored and how to break down the crates to get the ammo. Medical services were also trained. About the only ones that weren't were the chaplains. Rudimentary but better than nothing.
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PO3 B Al Eisen
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As a reactor operator, I didn't have a need for rifle training. As a civilian, I paid for my missing training myself. Such is life.
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PFC Mobile Gun System (Mgs) Gunner
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Me personally I don't care if your a rear echelon or on a ship, special ops, pilot, air crew, artillery, engineer, medical, science or infantry I believe we all should go through basic rifle marksmanship going through basic it was very nerve racking when I was in the Navy it took going out to the fleet to learn rifle marksmanship we live in a world where there is no front lines today got to have that capability. I think it should be standard for all branches.
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TSgt Emergency Medical Technician (Emt)
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I was part of CE for my first 6 years and had to qualify annually. Also I deployed to an Army FOB for 7 months as a Firefighter/EMT and the base was loaded with nothing but Army. Air Force ran the medical mission and security. There were more than 300 SF out there defending the base. I'll never forgot how to assemble/disassemble an M16/M9/M4. I think once a year is good for every AFSC. I didn't realize every AFSC didn't qualify once a year until I became a recruiter. What a shame, just one day a year and everyone wants to complain about money, training comes first!
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SSgt Thomas Crosser Jr.
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This is a problem in the AF mentality. We forget Korea, when one of our bases was overrun and the enemy slaughtered Air Police, maintenance, anyone left. Yeah, you need to know how to fight, and how to shoot, rifle or pistol. You just never know, and history has a nasty habit of repeating itself for those who ignore. Change the mentality, get the kids shooting in Basic, make all base personnel qualify yearly with the M-9, every two years on the M-4/M-16 platform and selected troops on belt fed weapons. You cannot count on a handful of cops to completely secure your base, especially downrange. We don't have enough bodies. And you cannot expect the AF to evac everyone in time, nor should we count on the Army or the Marines to pull us out of the fire.
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TSgt Fire Protection
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An an AF firefighter I was on the PRIME BEEF team....this is the Civil Engineering deployable team that would be sent to forward operating locations. We were required to qualify every year with our weapons since we never knew where we might be going. AF SF were the primary defense but we knew how to use our weapons if we had to.
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