Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
392K
4.23K
1.93K
562
562
0
Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
Avatar feed
Responses: 907
SrA Timothy Whitley
0
0
0
As an x AP I was fully aware that we were the air base defense (abgd). As as ssgt security forces you should have been aware of that too.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Capt Emanuele Corso
0
0
0
Oh Boy! Showing my age! When I enlisted in 1960 we did have to qualify with the .30 carbine. Then when I was in OTS we had to qualify with a sidearm (.45 automatic and that damn snub-nosed .38). I agree with the Sgt. this is a vital skill for all AF personnel. The AF doesn't generally have to operate like the ground forces but then you never know when those skills are going to be necessary and that is not the time to learn which end the trigger is on.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SMSgt Sheila Berg
0
0
0
Air Force required annual weapons training for those on mobility status. Sadly with the concern about spending and shortage of weapon instructors has had an effect.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Ronald L. Colbert
0
0
0
When I enter the Air Force in 1961 I had to take training both with a 45 and M-1, later was trained on
AR 15 and 3 man team for the base security. This was my second AFSC. I continue this training every 6 months in various Base locations and overseas until 1975. Then once a year until I Retired in 81. So I believe it depended on the AFSC or you changed career field. Yes we had also lean to breakdown weapons and handle ammo cans.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
PO1 Michael Eisenman
0
0
0
Strange though, as Navy I qualified M16, M9, even M1 and .45. I was subs, a nuke electrician, but required to hit a barn door. I never was required to be an expert but proficient enough to put lead downrange. In the Bees of course we had to be a little more accurate but I always appreciated Jarhead bullet sponges because we were not ground pounders. Having worked as civilian on a space wing base I agree, keep weapons out of the airman's hands. And most of the security forces were worth squat anyway such as leave weapons in the head, forget their clip when going on watch, and have no idea how a metal detector worked. SF was the one's with the most drunk on duty charges, domestic abuse, and stealing. A couple of them were so professional they took dumps just about everywhere, offices, hallways, even the middle of the bathroom floor. Several females carried M4s but had no rounds because they couldn't qualify, they carried them so no one would know how sad AF security is. And they had four hours every week on the range under instruction. I am guessing the instructor was Security Forces. But I know the best and brightest didn't get duty on the Colorado prairie so maybe there are some security forces that don't aspire to reach Barney Fife level.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
TSgt Philip Prigmore
0
0
0
I just saw this post. Every member of every branch of the service should be proficient with every weapon they might encounter. Yes that will be a lot of additional training, but it would be well worth it. With proper training with all fire arms, the personnel will achieve additional self respect and the ability to defend and protect themselves and their fellow members regardless of where they are located. When I was in the Air Force and went through basic training, we learned how to disassemble, clean, and reassemble the original M16. We then were given 150 rounds to prove what we learned. My brother had gone through basic a few years earlier and told me if you didn't qualify you were given an additional 150 rounds for a second chance to qualify. If you qualified, you got to police up a field behind the firing line while those who didn't fired the second chance 150 rounds. I grew up in East Tennessee and Alabama. I started shooting at age 5 and was rabbit and squirrel hunting by age 7 with a single shot .22 bolt action rifle. I didn't think the two individuals on either side of me would qualify, so I put 50 rounds in each of their targets. I put the final 50 rounds very scattered on my target. Yes, I didn't have to police that field and I got to fire another 150 rounds which were all located in an approximately 8 inch circle. I have a tremendous respect for all firearms. I know how to properly handle any firearm handed to me. I am saddened that this is not true for the current members of the Air Force. They never will know where they might be stationed, and it just might be in a very hostile location. Trying to learn once there is a drastic mistake. It takes more than just one time with a weapon to insure some familiarization. It takes a whole lot of training to learn how to handle that same weapon with enough proficiency to save your life and anyone else with you.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Arthur Tompkins
0
0
0
In 2004 they had an Air force Unit pulling escort service for supplies to LSA Diamondback in Mosul. They would use Tampa down to Bagdad. They would always come back with some trying stories.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt Paul Nadas
0
0
0
Here are my thoughts from my own personal experience. I joined the Air Force at age 17 in 1963. I 'qualified' as Expert in marksmanship in Basic Training, but admittedly I had the advantage of both already being a keen shooter who had been well-trained in the handling of 'small arms' courtesy of my time as a Boy Scout, and having the advantage of extraordinarily keen vision (20/10) I seem to recall that stateside, the weapons we used on the various ranges for 'qualifying' were 'clapped out' old M2 .30 caliber WWII era carbines. In some cases these rifles were so worn out that standing behind a shooter, you could actually see the arc of the bullet in flight(!). Cut to Viet Nam where I arrived for my 'tour' in October of 1965. I was issued a brand new Colt Armalite AR-15 (M-16), several clips, and some ammo, plus an old Colt .38 'Special' Police revolver and ammo for it. I received no training in either weapon, nor had I ever held the brand new (M-16), having seen it fired only once while at 'survival training' at what was then Stead Air Force Base near Reno, NV before shipping out. Army and Marine troops were still being deployed with the M-14 which was quite a good, accurate weapon, but heavy and not particularly well-suited for the kind of terrain and operational requirements that they faced 'in country.' What happened was kind of 'epic.' After being deployed for months 'out in the boonies' (relative to the sprawling Than Son Nhut Air Base outside Saigon), I had occasion to return to the base. In the interim, the base had come under attack one night and in the ensuing panic and disorder amongst untrained, unprepared, undisciplined, Air Force troops deployed there (what we derisively referred to as 'Saigon Warriors') The results were predictable: more Air Force casualties from 'friendly fire' than from the enemy. (That said, the Air Police deployed as Security for the base who faced the brunt of the attack by the VC and the USAF dog handlers acquitted themselves well.). That incident spelled the 'End' of giving weapons to everyone and anyone deployed to VN. When I showed up at the base with my M-16 and Colt revolver on a Western-styled 'gun-slinger' belt, I was regarded as an 'Outsider' and....inherently 'dangerous.' It was laughable, of course, but....I think the point I am trying to make is that if one is deployed to a 'Combat Zone' as a member of a military force, one should not only be equipped to defend oneself from the 'enemy' but also be well-trained and conversant with all proper procedures to be an asset in case of an emergency and not a Liability to oneself and one's fellow troops. (End of Long Winded rant....LOL! ;-)
(0)
Comment
(0)
Maj Walter Kilar
Maj Walter Kilar
8 y
I wish HQ USAF would listen to these rants. I enlisted in the mid-1990s when the Air Force was still winding down from the Persian Gulf War and was recovering from a massive RIF. Our deployments before 9/11/2001 were usually to Prince Sultan Air Base, Saudi Arabia, where we were not required to carry M-16s or M-9s due to the concentric rings of security. Most Airmen at the time only fired the M-16 at most once per year due to a shortage in funds for training, range time, and ammunition. Many Airmen I deployed with after 9/11/2001 had gone a decade with only two days of M-16 training total. Fast forward to 2017, and I still encounter officers and enlisted who have fired the M-16 for a total of four days per decade--usually during Combat Airman Skills Training (CAST) or other deployment training. When I think of CAST, I think of the countless hours of classroom training via PowerPoint, and poorly structured training in the field where the only thing I learned was to bring more bug spray. When the average Airman meets a contractor in Afghanistan, he or she will find that the contractor had 10x as much marksmanship training and will know how to drive an armored vehicle through Baghdad in reverse for one mile while taking fire. The summary here is that change must come from the top. The Air Force would need to prioritize "combat support" training starting in Basic Military Training, and periodic training at large training centers with a better curriculum. Periodic training should come every few years regardless of whether an Airman is deploying. For almost two decades, "combat support" training in the Air Force has been rather ad hoc and inconsistent throughout the career fields.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
COL Arthur Kaff
0
0
0
It appears the Air Force is picking up on the concerns you have referenced to some extent. I understand the Air Force now requires completion and qualification for all during a rifle qualification course on the M-16 in Air Force basic training.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Liam Babington
0
0
0
Quite frankly when I was in, and was deployed we were qualified before we left home station! With that said, we are technically focused, not infantry
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close