Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
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Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited 10 y ago
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MSgt Program Analyst   Joint Certification Program
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Since I was in both the USMC and in the USAF, I believe I have picked up some insight into this issue through the years I was in.
Yes, in the USMC – everyone is primarily a ‘rifleman’ and then then they have their MOS. So when Sh*t hits the fan – everyone is capable of being part of the defensive and/or offensive situation that is occurring.
In the USAF, the Security Forces (as labeled currently) are the army for the Air Force. Their primary mission is protection of Aircraft, Equipment and Personnel. There are other AFSC’s that need to provide armed protection (One example: CE); but for the most part CONUS units do not require personnel to ‘qualify’ unless they are deploying OCONUS – they might ‘FAM’ fire every three years possibly if their lucky.
My unit had a FAT’s system (Computerized video projection system where you could fire on range targets, or you could create ‘tactical’ field scenarios, or utilize ‘shoot don’t shoot’ scenarios). This system utilized wireless weapons (M9, M4, M16, M60, M240, M249, M870, etc.), they created the sounds and kick back like a normal weapon and even the weight was really close – magazines were utilized as well for reloading situations. This eliminated the need to fire ‘live’ ammo for the rest of the base unless they were deploying (then they would ‘qualify’ with real ammo) but at least they were getting proper instruction via our CATM instructors and ‘trigger’ time.
Not sure why this is not a widespread utilization among the branches – saves a lot of time and resources, while providing proper training situations and environments that you can’t normally take advantage of. We even had civilian law enforcement agencies come to the base to use it.
Unless you learn from history you will, keep repeating bad situations.
Vietnam showed the need why everyone should be properly trained with a weapon. Back then airbases were protected by the US Army, and the USAF only had air Police with .38’s roaming around inside the base. When the army would get called off – the bases would be overrun easily since the AP’s were not trained (at the time) and the base populous wasn’t either.
Flash forward to another situation with the US Army and convoys – personnel weren’t properly trained on weapon jamming fixes and people died or were captured.
Even up to today, in the military unless you are in a field that takes you to the ‘hostile’ environment you don’t get the proper weapons training that could save your life or the lives of others if the situation arose. It has happened at various CONUS bases in the recent past where some individual or individuals have opened fire in occupied buildings wounding and/or killing people.
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SSgt Vendor Relations
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We get that training before deployment...regardless of the weather...Torrential rain for instance.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
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You must be at a low deployment base. My guys qualify pretty much every year between the two deployment band we have folks going out and folks coming back with no lull. If you are assigned to a band and aren't broke, your deploying.
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WO1 Ierw Student
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This is why you have have Army aviation to protect the Air Force guys on the flight lines in war zones ;)
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SFC Rollie Hubbard
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Altho I do know what the basic tng for the Air Force is like I would say that this should have been taught in basic tng.
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TSgt Chip Dollason
TSgt Chip Dollason
10 y
Basic training is simply familiarization. Depending on your job, if you fail to qualify, they send you to your base for better instruction. They just push em thru at basic anymore.
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SSgt Rf Transmission Systems Technician
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Actually, my superintendent (prior Soldier and prior Marine) and I were discussing this recently. If they need an "all hands on deck" (especially with the branches cutting everything/one), the USAF is in trouble. The Marines and Army go through combat training, formations, firing squads, etc. The Air Force? Unless we are Special Operations or Security Forces, we get one day to learn how to shoot, actually shoot and then qualify. I have only touched an M16 twice in my 5 years of being in. Once in basic training, and once when a rifle was needed for JRTC.
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MSgt Security Business Analyst
MSgt (Join to see)
10 y
Now, the Current Rifle AFQC is a two day course.
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SSgt Rf Transmission Systems Technician
SSgt (Join to see)
10 y
Ah, ok, thank you MSgt.
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MSgt Security Business Analyst
MSgt (Join to see)
10 y
No problem, The AF Tried squeezing everything into a one day course, but it had a high failure rate.
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TSgt Ncoic Comm Focal Point
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>1 y
Gotta use our giant Air Force brains to remember that sh!t forever then! Muscle memory be damned!
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LTC Paul Labrador
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IMHO the issue is the word "all". If you are in billet that has the potential to deploy downrange, then you need to be qualfied on a weapon (at least M16 or M9). However, not everyone in the USAF is goint to deploy. Heck, with global reach of aircraft, most USAF Airmen can do their wartime job from bases in the US or in allied countries. Most will never go downrange into a combat zone. It is a waste of money to qualify airmen with live ammo who will never be put into a position to pull the trigger. The same can be said for many Navy and even some Army billets (like the one I currently am slotted to). Now I DO believe, with modern simulation tech, that those in non-deploying slots should do regular weapons familiarization on simulators (ie weaponeer) so that they at least are familiar with the weapon.
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TSgt David L.
TSgt David L.
10 y
...most USAF Airmen can do their wartime job from bases in the US or in allied countries...

That would be a neat trick. Having the same satellite uplink as a drone on our robots. Then some Army guy could just drive a rig to the IED/VBIED and unload the robot for us. I could be kicked back here in the states drinking a beer running a robot and hope everything can be done remotely. Or the Army could just do all the AF work outside the wire.
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MSgt Security Business Analyst
MSgt (Join to see)
10 y
The AF did study in the late 90's and early 2000's. The subject was on simulator weapons training. It was found that when the shooters conducted more simulator training they began to lose their fundamentals and ability to fire an actual weapon. The Air Force stopped using them to qualify people and started using them for what their true intentions were.

I would much rather see Airmen burn through the bullets and retain knowledge. IT takes around 3,000 repitions to build muscle memory. I think we need to start building muscle memory inot the Airmen.
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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
10 y
What kind of simlulators did they study? Modern simulators used by the Army are actual freal weapons with the barrels and bolts replaced so they are compatible with the simulator (which uses an air compressor in place of the gasses created by gunpowder). These weapons actually have real recoil, can be programmed to create malfunctions, etc. They are great to train fundamentals and familiarization of the weapon and how it functions, because they are actual weapons.
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MSgt Keith Hebert
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That was the hardest thing to get used to when I transferred over to the air guard from army guard.
Because if afsc I only qualifies every three years unless I was deployed
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SSG Financial Management Technician
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At least the rounds are pointed in the right direction.
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MSgt Roger Younce
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I was in the security forces for 16 years and what I know is many people have no need to be anywhere near a weapon. Not even a fork.
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SSgt Senior It Security Analyst
SSgt (Join to see)
10 y
Yes, but those individuals should not typically be in the "Profession of Arms".
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