Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
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Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited 9 y ago
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SSgt Brad Ball
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As a weapons tech 462 we were expected to to be very proficient with the Remington 870s with double 00 buck, As we escorted our munitions (NUKEs) from place to place. We had to qualify every 90 day. Trust me I could hold anyone off within 25 yards..
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SrA Jeff Campbell
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I would be amiss if I didn't say that not all USAF personnel are as incapable of handling the weapons you are spouting off about. I was selected to be a Security Police Augmentee and we were able to handle everything from shotguns to 203 grenade launchers. WHAT A BLAST! (granted I was raised by a Special Forces Dad who allowed me the freedom to learn about guns early on in life) Not all USAF personnel are as scared of weapons or handling them as you are portraying. I know personally some excellent sharp shooters who were active duty USAF! Thank You for your continuous service!
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SSgt Security Forces
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I never said all, but you know as well as I do that there is a great number of those who have no idea what to do with a weapon.
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CMSgt Senior Enlisted Leader
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9 y
Because we are not consistently trained... I had a few go's with the SAW when I was in the Army and kicked a$$. It was almost as big as I am! Lol
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SGT Lawrence Corser
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because of potato? honestly if your in a combat zone or close enough to one everyone should be qualified for a weapon. and requal every 3 months.
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TSgt David Holman
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If you are deploying, you need to know how to handle a weapon. I had this conversation with one of my docs once. Neither of us were averse to handling a weapon, nor were we afraid of it, but agreed that if it got to the point either of us had to use it there were much bigger problems at hand.
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PVT Ait Student
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I would have no clue about that, but I will say that every branch of the military should be qualified with the M4. It's probably the easiest weapons system to assemble and disassemble as well. Even though the Air Force and navy don't have any 11bravos or anything close to that, it would be nice to know that they would be able to protect themselves in some kind of situation that requires them to use some rifle marksman skills.
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SrA Daniel Hunter
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Completely agree. Once a year refresher "qualification" is of no help at all.
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SSgt Senior It Security Analyst
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9 y
85% of Airman will not touch an M-4/ M-16 after BMT. No yearly "refreshers", that is, unless they deploy.
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SrA Daniel Hunter
SrA Daniel Hunter
9 y
Okay, I am speaking for those who do deploy. I was in a maintenance unit designated as AEF with a secondary duty of airfield security. Once a year was a joke. We were trained in anti-terrorism/anti-hijacking and yet no one was proficient with and M-16 unless they owned one.
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Sgt Metal Worker
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It's not necessary for airmen to know any of that. Even if an air field were to get over run, if your in country there is the army and marines on that same base. Even then I only carried security rounds and was told if something ever did happen to hold up in a bunker and let QRF deal with the problem. The AF doesn't assault hills you bomb them.
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SSgt Senior It Security Analyst
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Emphatically disagree. All personnel should be able to contribute to an effective defensive force, this includes Airmen.
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Sgt Metal Worker
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9 y
It's not what they were made to do. It's like saying a semi competes in Le Mans. Their contributions to a defense come from the sky. Saying every one of them needs to qualify annually is a waste of money. Maybe if ww3 comes they should get them to a rifle range but until then it's an unnecessary cost.
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MSgt Program Analyst   Joint Certification Program
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Since I was in both the USMC and in the USAF, I believe I have picked up some insight into this issue through the years I was in.
Yes, in the USMC – everyone is primarily a ‘rifleman’ and then then they have their MOS. So when Sh*t hits the fan – everyone is capable of being part of the defensive and/or offensive situation that is occurring.
In the USAF, the Security Forces (as labeled currently) are the army for the Air Force. Their primary mission is protection of Aircraft, Equipment and Personnel. There are other AFSC’s that need to provide armed protection (One example: CE); but for the most part CONUS units do not require personnel to ‘qualify’ unless they are deploying OCONUS – they might ‘FAM’ fire every three years possibly if their lucky.
My unit had a FAT’s system (Computerized video projection system where you could fire on range targets, or you could create ‘tactical’ field scenarios, or utilize ‘shoot don’t shoot’ scenarios). This system utilized wireless weapons (M9, M4, M16, M60, M240, M249, M870, etc.), they created the sounds and kick back like a normal weapon and even the weight was really close – magazines were utilized as well for reloading situations. This eliminated the need to fire ‘live’ ammo for the rest of the base unless they were deploying (then they would ‘qualify’ with real ammo) but at least they were getting proper instruction via our CATM instructors and ‘trigger’ time.
Not sure why this is not a widespread utilization among the branches – saves a lot of time and resources, while providing proper training situations and environments that you can’t normally take advantage of. We even had civilian law enforcement agencies come to the base to use it.
Unless you learn from history you will, keep repeating bad situations.
Vietnam showed the need why everyone should be properly trained with a weapon. Back then airbases were protected by the US Army, and the USAF only had air Police with .38’s roaming around inside the base. When the army would get called off – the bases would be overrun easily since the AP’s were not trained (at the time) and the base populous wasn’t either.
Flash forward to another situation with the US Army and convoys – personnel weren’t properly trained on weapon jamming fixes and people died or were captured.
Even up to today, in the military unless you are in a field that takes you to the ‘hostile’ environment you don’t get the proper weapons training that could save your life or the lives of others if the situation arose. It has happened at various CONUS bases in the recent past where some individual or individuals have opened fire in occupied buildings wounding and/or killing people.
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SSgt Vendor Relations
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We get that training before deployment...regardless of the weather...Torrential rain for instance.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
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You must be at a low deployment base. My guys qualify pretty much every year between the two deployment band we have folks going out and folks coming back with no lull. If you are assigned to a band and aren't broke, your deploying.
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