Posted on May 28, 2015
Why don't all members of the Air Force have to be fully qualified to be a rifleman in case of hostile events?
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I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Rifleman
3P: Security Forces
Air Force
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 914
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When I was stationed at MacDill AFB, we had to have a civilian safety guy from our unit "approve" the standard of our training and act as the range safety officer. The guy was knowledgeable and definitely taught us something but it was still a pain and a little demoralizing from an Army perspective.
The macro reason is that the Air Force seems to place a much higher value on technical expertise in an Airman's skill set than overall combat skills. It makes sense, that's why the Air Force pads all its overseas bases with Army guys around the flight line, right?
The macro reason is that the Air Force seems to place a much higher value on technical expertise in an Airman's skill set than overall combat skills. It makes sense, that's why the Air Force pads all its overseas bases with Army guys around the flight line, right?
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TSgt Chip Dollason
NEGATIVE! The AF Security Forces field is always in critical need of more cops and soldiers are a dime a dozen. As a SF I deployed to Camp AJ in Kuwait to support the Army as a Armorer/Truck commander with the 70th MTD doing convoys in Iraq. I think the Army and the AF work a lot together because one day soon, you will see the rebirth of the Army Air Corp again.
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It always cracks me up when people refer to the Mark 4 like it is not an M-16. But in any case the navy qualifies everyone on the Beretta 9mil (M9) and the M-16. Some are further qualified on the M-60 and 50 Cal, to a lessor extent the M-40 Grenade Launcher and various other assundries. My personal favorite is the GAU-19 it makes a distinctive sound when fired at you. I put one of those on everything I could find, there are two of them mounted on the SWIFT HSVX-2. Not sure they made it to the production ships though.
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TSgt Chip Dollason
The GAU is nothing but a short barreled 5.56 M16 series weapons. They were replaced with the M-4's because they would still fire on full auto instead of the 3 rd burst.
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CPO David Sharp
M-4 are designed for MRAPs and other tactical vehicles. They are a 5.56 round but the stock is expandable. The lower receiver is replaceable as the A-1 A-2 were mergered for the Seabees for the automatic rifleman in the fireteam.
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I was on the initial response team (formally known as "alert reactionary force" but governor janklow thought that was too militant) the irt was comprised of 80 members (40 from army/40 from Air Force) we were activated to guard Mount Rushmore from suspected terror attack during the 4th of July week. Airmen did not know what battle site zero is. They could not properly load a magazine.(I personally show an e-9 how to load a magazine!) and they whined constantly about the barracks! Army guys had 1 squad to a room. All 40 guys shared 1 latrine. Eventually airman got 2 guys to a room and 1squad to a latrine.
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MSgt (Join to see)
Hey, Shit happens. If it was my Airmen guarding Mt. Rushmore you would have had a hole ton of issues on your hands. I taught Battle Sight Zero and knowing your "Dope." I cannot help it if the general population in the AF does not retain what they are taught. I can tell you that it is part of the requirement for them to be armed. Yes, we do show them how to load weapons too.
I can tell you about a time I helped open a Connex Box with US Army Infantry MK-19's and M2's in it. Those weapns were bbeyond repair with the amount of rust in them. I have been on my Range with Active Duty Army that has not basic weapons handling skills. Nor did they understand the concept of "Level and Down Range." It takes all kinds to make the world go round.
My Airmen get to Qualify every three years on a MURF or REX Range on an Army Installation. They also qualify on the MPMG Range when qualifying on the M249 and M240B.
I can tell you about a time I helped open a Connex Box with US Army Infantry MK-19's and M2's in it. Those weapns were bbeyond repair with the amount of rust in them. I have been on my Range with Active Duty Army that has not basic weapons handling skills. Nor did they understand the concept of "Level and Down Range." It takes all kinds to make the world go round.
My Airmen get to Qualify every three years on a MURF or REX Range on an Army Installation. They also qualify on the MPMG Range when qualifying on the M249 and M240B.
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Cpl Andrew Kotcher
as a aviation electrician in the marine corps my butt had to be on range every year to qualify with my rifle, and whoa to those that cant qualify.i shot the same as i did in boot camp 226 rifle expert year in year out [250 point system kd course]
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SP5 James Elmore
I would never hand a weapon over to someone who hadn't qualified on the range. AF E-9 or not...more danger to him/herself and friendlies than useful.
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That’s a good one. I enlisted to do action and defend our Nation. So I joined SF. Lots of joy there. I was en charged of our arms room, my 192 M-16, 12 shotguns, 5 .45 had to be sparkling cleaned as new. My responsibility was to handle all weapons serviced and functional. I was excited when I told my own Coronel that his weapon was no approved. He had to go back and strip the weapon as I requested.
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My active duty experience has not been anything like this but reserves are a completely different world where most of this is true. Transportation, PJs and security forces have the most exposure to actual hostility outside the wire. And with the exception of weather and intel who see no action at all are the career fields that spend the most time working with the army. I would agree that with the exception of security forces, transportation vehicle operations, civil engineering and actual special forces there is more danger than good in arming most and that goes for active duty and reserves
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While all air force used to qualify I would agree the false culture seemed to think security forces and special forces. While the Air Force culture is to avoid work and pretending that we were not part of the military that only accounts for 80%. There are more than enough transportation troops that spent days at a time far outside the wire in hostile areas in possession of loaded weapons 24/7 & for a short time security forces sent minimal personnel to work along side us, but that was short, especially for convoy protection units. I will say most Air Force wrongly believe security forces are tip of the spear, in truth many careers have wartime positions and weapons training but this does not usually show unless in a combat zone and even then we are not fortunate enough to stay inside the wire or even in sight of the base perimeter
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I was in the Air Force during the Cold War and stationed in Germany. I had to qualify on the M-16 or I couldn’t go. I didn’t just learn how to shoot. I had to demonstrate that I could take it apart, clean it and put it back together.
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I was qualified on both M16 and 9M, and if needed to,could handle myself. In the Air Force, we also multi-tasked. Don't judge the book. Just like all of us in arms, we are there when needed.
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Join a security position and you will. I had marksman with shotgun, and 9mm and quified with 38
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