Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
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Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
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Sgt Russ Brayton
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That’s why the Marines call it the Chair Force.
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TSgt David Olson
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I seem to remember a similar question a year or so back. I responded then and I’ll do so now. I started my military career in the Army. During eight weeks of basic training, one week was devoted to the rifle range. The Army considered all members as riflemen regardless of their primary speciality. Some years later I was in the Air National guard as a security police NCO. I had to qualify with both my .38 caliber revolver and M-16 twice a year. Most other members of the tactical fighter unit went out, reluctantly once a year, to shoot their M-16s. A few years later I was in the AF Reserve as an IMA, assigned to an AD security forces squadron. I had to qualify twice a year with my 9 mm Beretta and rifle. One day I was qualifying with the 9mm along side a number of F-117 pilots. That was a kick. Some were good, some awful, but like one told me, was the AF going to ground him because he couldn’t fire a handgun? Obviously not, considering all the training required to fly the F-117. Moral of the story, stand well back if you are on a AF firing range, except for security forces.
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SSgt Robert Van Buhler III
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When I went through basic training we had to qualify, and I had to requalify a couple years later, but the USAF was then lax about qualifying on an M-16, not to mention 5BX qualifications. Basically there were not enough M-16s to go around. I was on a squadron competitive rifle team for a while and we used M-1 carbines. As far as PT qualification, shame on the Air Force. When they did start testing my great memory was fat Staff Sergeants with 12 or more years of service waddling along the road desperately trying to get ready for testing. I would say there were far too few opportunities to shoot in the Air Force, and far too little encouragement to keep in shape. They were not to good on keeping track of vaccinations and dental exams. You pretty much had to be proactive in all regards.
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SSgt James Farlow
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USAF was not always a force with members unqualified on weapons. During my Basic Training during October - December 1954 (11 weeks) all trainees were required to qualify on the M1 Carbine which was the USAF weapon of choice. I qualified at the Sharpshooter level with the M1 Carbine. After Basic Training I didn't see a carbine again until I was assigned to Incirlik AFB in Turkey. I worked at the HF radio transmitter site which was located near one end of the runway. That location was equipped with one loaded M1 Carbine for defensive purposes (vastly under-gunned, I know). Later during my tour every man assigned to the site was issued an M1 Carbine for defensive purposes. Those days are obviously long gone in USAF. I just wanted to remind everyone that there once was a time in USAF when we at least knew what an M1 Carbine was.
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PO3 Adam Stoflet
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Allow me to share my opinion from the Navy, when we went to boot camp all we did was the 9mm and the shotgun, no rifle though. Then once I got out to the Fleet I was told by one of my supervisors that because of my rate as Damage Controlman that basically we would never need that type of training. I was kinda surprised but I looked for my own rationalization and came up with this idea, That my job of fire fighting, CBRN, flooding and other bits of repair to the ship where gonna happen when others where fighting. So while other people where doing the war fighting I would be having to put out the fires, fixing the holes, helping with first aid, keeping the ship afloat while they where dealing with the threat.

A prime example was when my ship was doing anti-pirate opps while the VBSS (Visit Board Search & Seizure) team was out doing the inspection I was on the flight deck team helping refuel the helicopter that was providing air support.

So I would put it like this, while other Airman are the fighting force, other would have to engage in support of them, like loading bombs on planes, fueling fighters jets, sitting in radar control rooms directing air traffic, relaying critical info etc.

I hope this helps or at lest explains how some people got there.

Not everyone one can fight, but they can support the fight in their own way.
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LCDR Mike Morrissey
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Having been a ship’s weapons officer, an NAG on PBRs in Vietnam, and Ops Officer, Nuke Weaps Security amongst other opportunities to express my manhood with everything from a .38 to M79, Ma Deuce, the mini, and 3”/50s, the Navy requirement for being qualed on a particular weapon is determined by the billet assigned. A certain type of shipboard response team is required to qual with specific weapons. Then there are the CBs, PhibCBs, ACU, IUW, of course SpecWar and the list goes on. However there is no requirement for every sailor to stay qual’d with any particular weapon. If one considers a ship with hundreds (thousands for the biggies) of sailors who serve in billets ranging from papers, to engines, to electronics, weapons (mostly much bigger than any .50 cal—think missiles ) and cooking to summarize a few, and also wants all required to stay current with a .45, 9MM, or the rifle of the day, that person just isn’t in touch with reality.

On the other hand there was an NBC Whitepaper Report (decades ago) which looked at the training of the DOD reserve components and NG units. One particular part of the report showed Navy Reserve units having the w/e drills of “firearms training”. The training was all about finding some place to shoot and borrowing weapons from somebody’s armory. A grand time was had by all. Everyone got to shoot. However nearly all never did the other more important part of the training—breaking down, servicing the weapon and learning how to effectively use the type weapon in hand. That NBC report did a lot of good. The hammer came down throughout the Naval Reserve (and the other components) and funding and other assets slowly started to bring us back into battery.

It’s one thing to know how to load a clip, slip it into the weapon, chamber a round, point the weapon and pull the trigger, it’s entirely a different thing to include its proper maintenance and drilling in its effective use. The latter takes time and energy. Time and energy away from mission essential specific training and fulfilling the plethora of requirements for advancement for a sailor.

Any sailor who wants to learn about a weapon can find ways to do so. But, if anyone thinks sailors (enlisted/officer) on bases and ships should walk around with pistols and holsters or have easy access to them, there are funny farms waiting.

The above addresses Navy stuff because that’s what I know. However my father and father in law were both WWII and Korea aircrews. Both were gunners who thought easy access was dangerous and only billet requirements should determine access and use of small arms. They and I well knew the incidents of accidental discharges resulting in fatalities or disabling injuries when small arms are not tightly controlled.
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SrA Daniel Loving
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When I was in the AF our mission was then the world is now. When I went through basic we received one day with m16 for familiarization and one day on the range. There was never any direct instruction on weapons or the finer details of shooting. Like SMSgt Merich said the AF has always used an assigned detatchment.
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I feel like this is a trap...but I’ll answer anyway. Because they basically work at an airport.
SPC Bill Ratajczak
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Fly boys and firearms? Sounds like a unlikely and slightly dangerous combination. There would a rash of blue on blue incidents. Lol
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SN Greg Scott
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The Navy is the same way as the Air Force. Although we dont prioritize rifle training becasue its not the mission of the sailors, we are all trained in the Colt .45 cal 1911 in boot camp and some in the shotgun once we get to the fleet. But mostly we are trained in our specific job ratings along with our assigned shipboard battle stations during any combat at sea.
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