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Every day I log onto RallyPoint to see Officers, NCOs, and
Soldiers complaining about living up to the standard. We have all seen the posts about how important a 300 is then many long time NCOs chime in about how the Army standard is 180 and if that is the standard than it is good enough. Then we have hundreds of posts about how the weight control program sucks and I weigh too much and it’s not fair. Leaders and Soldiers thinking that just
because you know a little something about your job you shouldn’t have to meet that standard. There are a few posts discussing how a 110 GT score is too high and we should lower it because people are not good at tests. Then I have seen posts of people thinking that striving for distinguished honor grad and commandants list are not all that important.
I know some people are going to say things about PT doesn’t mean anything if you know your job, or if your PT is good body fat standard shouldn’t matter, or any of the other hundred reasons people have for under achievement and condoning it in their Soldiers.
My basic question is since when did just passing, barely meeting the standard or wanting the standards to drop to you instead of striving to be better become the way we do business. Is it just me? Am I the only one who sees this?
BLUF: Either you are trying to excel and not just meet the standard but far exceed it. Or…. You are just coasting by doing the bare minimum and are a detriment to our force.
I know some people are going to say things about PT doesn’t mean anything if you know your job, or if your PT is good body fat standard shouldn’t matter, or any of the other hundred reasons people have for under achievement and condoning it in their Soldiers.
My basic question is since when did just passing, barely meeting the standard or wanting the standards to drop to you instead of striving to be better become the way we do business. Is it just me? Am I the only one who sees this?
BLUF: Either you are trying to excel and not just meet the standard but far exceed it. Or…. You are just coasting by doing the bare minimum and are a detriment to our force.
Standards
APFT
NCOES
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 49
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True leaders set the example and strive for perfection, those who are willing to settle for the standard, par or a C and do so without trying to excel are not leaders. Leaders never settle and when the time come that they no longer can set the standard or they are willing to settle for mediocre then it is time to remove themselves from a leadership role and leave the military. People who are not willing to excel are a handicap to a unit, they are leaders who get soldiers, airmen and sailors killed. PT is done to keep ones body honed to its physical peak, and when you body is in shape your mind follows suite. If a leader is willing to allow themselves to slide on a standard then they maybe willing to allow a subordinate or the unit to slide in their proficiency, thus promoting instant un-readiness. Un-Readiness or being un-trained inhibits mission accomplishment, increases casualties on the battlefield and causes not only failure in the individual but also in the unit and the units to the left, right, front and behind. the domino effect can cause catastrophic failure.
Read the NCO Creed, The Officer's oath, ask a Medal of Honor Winner or anyone awarded a medal for courage or heroism if they were willing to settle for MEDIOCR. I will bet they never settled for just making the standard they strive to set the example and lead from the front. Leaders never settle they strive to excel they live for the challenge, they set the example for others to emulate.
Read the NCO Creed, The Officer's oath, ask a Medal of Honor Winner or anyone awarded a medal for courage or heroism if they were willing to settle for MEDIOCR. I will bet they never settled for just making the standard they strive to set the example and lead from the front. Leaders never settle they strive to excel they live for the challenge, they set the example for others to emulate.
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LTC Mark Gavula
I've been retired going on 8 years, and am cautious to pass judgement on the state of our Armed Forces, and use a blanket term as mediocrity to describe our service members. Overall, my assessment is that we are the best fighting force this world has seen over the last century.
Yes, there are some warts that need some attention just as there were some warts when we were on active duty. I would expect personnel problems, morale, training, leadership issues. This is all after 12 years at war and relearning to fight on a contemporary battlefield, soldiers having to be a killer one minute and then having to be a diplomat the next minute where truly a bad decision or action can have strategic consequences and be on every news outlet in the world. The army has seen the highest divorce rates and suicide rates in decades if not ever. Soldiers are getting pink slips while in combat on the battlefield in Afghanistan. They are having to personally get their heads wrapped around the transgender and other changes occurring because of progressive national policies. Implementing training to retrain core competencies that have atrophisized over the war years. What makes this difficult is the expertise that existed at the beginning of the war has left the army through ETS, or retirement. Today's battalion command teams were LTs or SSGs when the war began, basically novice leaders at the time just learning their MOS. Now they have the burden of retraining the core competencies, dealing withe the issues I mentioned above while trying to prepare for the next war and figuring out how to train the 300+ 350-1 tasks in only 331 training days out of the year. Then having to answer the dumbass questions of why did SGT. Smith beat the living sh$& out of his wife.
I am not making excuses but our young NCOs and Officers plates are full and to me their plates are more full than mine ever was. It is always nice to reminisce and say, When I was a CO or PSG or PL this is what I would do blah, blah , blah. That was a diffirent time and situation. Yes, we were legends in our own minds and no one remembers that stuff anyway. They only remember how they were treated. Since we retired guys don't have a true COP, situational awareness and understanding let's not use blanket terms such as mediocre but be specific in the area you believe is mediocre. Our troops need our support and mentor ship.
Yes, there are some warts that need some attention just as there were some warts when we were on active duty. I would expect personnel problems, morale, training, leadership issues. This is all after 12 years at war and relearning to fight on a contemporary battlefield, soldiers having to be a killer one minute and then having to be a diplomat the next minute where truly a bad decision or action can have strategic consequences and be on every news outlet in the world. The army has seen the highest divorce rates and suicide rates in decades if not ever. Soldiers are getting pink slips while in combat on the battlefield in Afghanistan. They are having to personally get their heads wrapped around the transgender and other changes occurring because of progressive national policies. Implementing training to retrain core competencies that have atrophisized over the war years. What makes this difficult is the expertise that existed at the beginning of the war has left the army through ETS, or retirement. Today's battalion command teams were LTs or SSGs when the war began, basically novice leaders at the time just learning their MOS. Now they have the burden of retraining the core competencies, dealing withe the issues I mentioned above while trying to prepare for the next war and figuring out how to train the 300+ 350-1 tasks in only 331 training days out of the year. Then having to answer the dumbass questions of why did SGT. Smith beat the living sh$& out of his wife.
I am not making excuses but our young NCOs and Officers plates are full and to me their plates are more full than mine ever was. It is always nice to reminisce and say, When I was a CO or PSG or PL this is what I would do blah, blah , blah. That was a diffirent time and situation. Yes, we were legends in our own minds and no one remembers that stuff anyway. They only remember how they were treated. Since we retired guys don't have a true COP, situational awareness and understanding let's not use blanket terms such as mediocre but be specific in the area you believe is mediocre. Our troops need our support and mentor ship.
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I wouldn't say that the standards have changes but the expectations and norms have. I was talking to my PSG today about this. I believe the NCO Corps took a hit. I believe that a professional force was molded into a war fighting force and we are slowly coming back to be a professional force. Soldiers will be required to met the standards or face separation. It is coming to the point where if there is just one issue in their records they may also be separated. I know it is a very difficult situation but this will only create a lean professional army.
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I think it goes deeper than just PT. If you look at many aspect of the military, you will find plenty that shows a lowered standard. Even in my short time in, I have noticed that a good percentage of junior personnel seem to have a sense of entitlement to them and this carries over to there lack of work ethic, which leads to issues such as PT and weight standards not being met. Then, when you try and hold people up to the standard, you get disciplined and are labeled the asshole by everyone. Also, one thing I have noticed in the navy is a lot of senior enlisted personnel will do everything they can to dodge PT standards, then bitch at those below them who cannot meet the standard, creating a hostile environment and people who think that they do not have to maintain the standard since their superiors do not meet it. /Rant
This is a sore subject with me right now.
This is a sore subject with me right now.
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Read some good views on this topic in this forum. Hopefully leaders at every level just influence Soldiers to excel at their jobs, PT, and personal goals while in the military. A sincere conversation may just be what they need to change their outlook in life.
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1SG (Join to see)
You are right, but so are some of the people in their replies. We have to look at the whole soldier. Not just PT score, ETC. I think you will see I have stated this for as long as I have been posting on RP.
You are right, but so are some of the people in their replies. We have to look at the whole soldier. Not just PT score, ETC. I think you will see I have stated this for as long as I have been posting on RP.
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I'd say that's 75% of the Army thats only in to get by. There is a lot of good soldiers who know their job to a T but are in the Army to just get by. But there's also people in the Army who are all about 670-1, 600-9, 6-22, APFT and weapons but know jack squat about their job or are lazy and don't do it and shame out and some are in the leader position that lead bad exapmle. So they must do it to just get by to. Who's the bad guy there? It's rare to see people with both qualities if you ask me and really push themselves on everything.
But as far as me, I do my do my best ( but not go to extreme like getting 300 APFT) and take everything serious, like when doing training and pretend it to be real. But one problem I see that should be fixed is the motivation and negativity and not so much the only in to get by. All I hear all the time is complain complain complain which effects moral at every level.
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SGT (Join to see)
If everyone should push themselves then we should all be Navy SEALs. But as long as you meet the standards, keep motivation, take training serious and can hold your weight and leaders do the right thing and lead by example, then I don't see a problem with just getting by.
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It is a an Army regulation, if anybody has question they should read up on it in AR 600-9, back in 1986 I was trying to get promoted to PFC in the Army and I was not in compliance with the AR so I was flagged, being overweight is not only a matter of being able to pass the AFPT it is a matter of complete and total readiness.
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