7
7
0
This is for all of us, but I give one stark example why we all need to heed warnings like this...because we have a duty to carry and protect our own, and how can we do that if we do not know. I personally have two 9mm and primarily because of carry capacity and cheapness and availability of ammo. State your reasons for owning a 9mm....or reasons why you do not.
Why one cop now carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job ...
Lastly, I know there are still those of you reading this and about to blow a top because you can't believe that .45 is somehow not a "man stopper" ...
I am about to prove to you scientifically that the 9mm is just as effective as the .45 with today's modern ammo, but you'll want to reply with what you know to be true, have seen, or "real world experience" ...
Before you do that, you should know about Police Sergeant Timothy Gramin ...
Sergeant Gramin used to carry 47 rounds of .45 ammunition while on duty. That was before he got in a gunfight with an attacker who would not go down. The police officer shot the man 14 times with .45-cal. ammunition - six of those hits in supposedly fatal locations.
The final three shots that the police officer fired were into the suspects head — one through each side of his mouth and one through the top of his skull into his brain.
In case you missed that, the officer shot the man 11 times with .45 and then 3 more times in the HEAD before the guy finally stopped fighting.
And lest you try to convince yourself that the attacker was drugged up, to quote the report, "Remarkably, the gunman was still showing vital signs when EMS arrived. Sheer determination, it seemed, kept him going, for no evidence of drugs or alcohol was found in his system."
The full story can be found here on PoliceOne.com. But the point is that yes, even the .45 caliber will not guarantee you a "one shot stop".
Oh, and by the way, Sergeant Gramins now carries a 9mm on the job ...
" ... Now unfailingly he goes to work carrying 145 handgun rounds, all 9 mm. These include three extra 17-round magazines for his primary sidearm (currently a Glock 17), plus two 33-round mags tucked in his vest, as well as the backup gun [Glock 26]"
If you are still convinced that your .45 is better, then there's nothing I can say now that will convince you otherwise, so let's just get to the list (which includes .45 anyways) ...
Why one cop now carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job ...
Lastly, I know there are still those of you reading this and about to blow a top because you can't believe that .45 is somehow not a "man stopper" ...
I am about to prove to you scientifically that the 9mm is just as effective as the .45 with today's modern ammo, but you'll want to reply with what you know to be true, have seen, or "real world experience" ...
Before you do that, you should know about Police Sergeant Timothy Gramin ...
Sergeant Gramin used to carry 47 rounds of .45 ammunition while on duty. That was before he got in a gunfight with an attacker who would not go down. The police officer shot the man 14 times with .45-cal. ammunition - six of those hits in supposedly fatal locations.
The final three shots that the police officer fired were into the suspects head — one through each side of his mouth and one through the top of his skull into his brain.
In case you missed that, the officer shot the man 11 times with .45 and then 3 more times in the HEAD before the guy finally stopped fighting.
And lest you try to convince yourself that the attacker was drugged up, to quote the report, "Remarkably, the gunman was still showing vital signs when EMS arrived. Sheer determination, it seemed, kept him going, for no evidence of drugs or alcohol was found in his system."
The full story can be found here on PoliceOne.com. But the point is that yes, even the .45 caliber will not guarantee you a "one shot stop".
Oh, and by the way, Sergeant Gramins now carries a 9mm on the job ...
" ... Now unfailingly he goes to work carrying 145 handgun rounds, all 9 mm. These include three extra 17-round magazines for his primary sidearm (currently a Glock 17), plus two 33-round mags tucked in his vest, as well as the backup gun [Glock 26]"
If you are still convinced that your .45 is better, then there's nothing I can say now that will convince you otherwise, so let's just get to the list (which includes .45 anyways) ...
Posted in these groups: 
Handguns and Pistols
Firearms and Guns
Handguns and Pistols Firearms and Guns
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 16
11
11
0
I think first and foremost is the ability to control the weapon. If you can't re-engage quickly after the first shot and everyone after that, it doesn't matter the caliber of the weapon. Pick a caliber you can control on a platform that fits you (Ruger, Glock, S&W, etc) and practice, practice, practice. If you can't put lead "on target" it doesn't really matter what you are carrying.
(11)
(0)
SSG(P) (Join to see)
Wise words...and don't use a small caliber weapon on a large caliber man....lol.
(6)
(0)
9
9
0
Haha! I'm just messin y'all. To each his own. Personally, I carry the .45 because they don't make a .46...
(9)
(0)
SSG(P) (Join to see)
My point: open yourself to possibilities. All highly recommended rounds are included in this post. So if there is not convincing you...share your load and what ammo you prefer
(0)
(0)
SSG Arnie Jones
That was a short discussion (HaHa). The FBI put out a "memo" a few months/year ago that "their" findings were the 9mm served the better cause for law enforcement and everyone wants to jump on board. Personally most of my pistols are .40 cal. Just a preference I like with Glock.
(0)
(0)
(0)
(0)
CW2 (Join to see)
But the 10mm has more energy at 100 meters than a .45 has at the muzzle. So the 10mm is like a .45, but for grown ups
(0)
(0)
6
6
0
The most important question is, "Which caliber am I most likely to hit the target with?" Followed closely by "Which caliber am I most likely to hit the target center mass/kill zone?" The only other question is a matter of rounds you need to answer the question above?
For those who love their .45 or .40s, there really isn't anything you can say or need to say, if that is 'their' weapon, be safe and I hope you never need to use your weapon, but if you do...I hope you are the one telling the story when it is all said and done
For those who love their .45 or .40s, there really isn't anything you can say or need to say, if that is 'their' weapon, be safe and I hope you never need to use your weapon, but if you do...I hope you are the one telling the story when it is all said and done
(6)
(0)
SSG(P) (Join to see)
.22 is still the most commonly used weapon and kills the most on the street. So, caliber has little to do with it.
(0)
(0)
6
6
0
Shot placement is king. More rounds means more chances to place the shot. As depicted above, with modern JHP the difference in bore yields minimal difference in damage inflicted.
(6)
(0)
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
When it really boils down to it, it's not the "wound" that kills, it's the "time" or "shock" that does. More wounds decreases time needed, and increases chance of shock neutralizing target.
We're all big bags of blood. Run out of blood, and it's game over. Each hole drains X blood per minute. Although there are kill shots, more shots on targets not only increase bleed rate, they also increase chance of hitting something "important."
We're all big bags of blood. Run out of blood, and it's game over. Each hole drains X blood per minute. Although there are kill shots, more shots on targets not only increase bleed rate, they also increase chance of hitting something "important."
(5)
(0)
Wound channel and penetration is only a small part of the overall equation.
Shot placement, follow up shot placement, barrier penetration, kinetic energy transferred to the target.
I often carry a 10mm revolver... with my chosen carry ammo in that revolver my bullet is getting to the target at the rate of 1450 feet per second (FPS) with about 675 ftlb muzzle energy.
Your typical .45 cal JHP 185 grain defense round is getting there at about 850 FPS, with 369 ftlb muzzle energy.
Your typical 9mm JHP 115 grain defense round is getting there at about 1155 FPS, with 341 ftlb muzzle energy
So yes wound channel and penetration is close on all.. now pick the one you can hit with, that you can carry enough to hit the target several times .. through or around barriers and accounting for misses.
Pick the one that gets there faster than the targets bullet gets to you, pick one that hits harder.
Then shoot often , carry always, and hope you never have to use it, all while being ready to use it.
Shot placement, follow up shot placement, barrier penetration, kinetic energy transferred to the target.
I often carry a 10mm revolver... with my chosen carry ammo in that revolver my bullet is getting to the target at the rate of 1450 feet per second (FPS) with about 675 ftlb muzzle energy.
Your typical .45 cal JHP 185 grain defense round is getting there at about 850 FPS, with 369 ftlb muzzle energy.
Your typical 9mm JHP 115 grain defense round is getting there at about 1155 FPS, with 341 ftlb muzzle energy
So yes wound channel and penetration is close on all.. now pick the one you can hit with, that you can carry enough to hit the target several times .. through or around barriers and accounting for misses.
Pick the one that gets there faster than the targets bullet gets to you, pick one that hits harder.
Then shoot often , carry always, and hope you never have to use it, all while being ready to use it.
(5)
(0)
CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025
“Shoot often”! (Be Qualified), Anything else that matters? SGM Erik Marquez
(0)
(0)
3
3
0
Unfortunately for me, as a .45 owner, the information on 9mm has increasingly disproven the previous assumptions on the superiority on .45. Thank you for your article. I won't be getting rid of my .45 anytime soon, because I love the way it shoots, and it still launches bullets, but it is clear that it is not an advantaged round. Thanks for the post!
(3)
(0)
SSG(P) (Join to see)
Until better ammo comes out for the .40 and .45 and says otherwise, this was proven to be not on interesting, but also educational.
(0)
(0)
CPT Lawrence Cable
There are plenty of high performance 45 ACP rounds out there that match the 9mm and 40mm in terminal performance. If you us Hornady's Critical Duty ammo as an example, the 45 ACP round maintains 384 Ft/Lbs of Energy at a 100 yards while the 9mm produces 369 Ft/Lbs at the Muzzle. All other things being equal, more energy and a bigger hole means more effective round.
There are lots of reasons to carry a different or smaller handgun, conceal ability, weight, recoil, etc, but as far as I have seen, only the 10MM rivals(or surpasses) the 45ACP in energy down range.
My every day care piece is a 380.
There are lots of reasons to carry a different or smaller handgun, conceal ability, weight, recoil, etc, but as far as I have seen, only the 10MM rivals(or surpasses) the 45ACP in energy down range.
My every day care piece is a 380.
(0)
(0)
3
3
0
My reasons for carrying a 9MM: Because I am an accurate enough shooter that I don't have to worry about whether a shot in the arm will take you down, so I don't need the 17 rounds to take down a threat....so 17 rounds allows me to be defended from 17 threats.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
I've always had the physics approach, the greater the mass of the round, the bigger the hole...I guess I was sort of wrong.
(3)
(0)
SSG(P) (Join to see)
Considering all the new choice ammo in the more affordable 9mm and you definitely have some choices to make. Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
(1)
(0)
CPT Lawrence Cable
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - And all those new and superior ammos for 9mm and .40s are now equally available for a 45 ACP.
I grew up on big bore revolvers and even the numbers above speaks for the effectiveness of the 357 Magnum, but it isn't as easy to be accurate with it as it is with my 45, nor does the 45 have the same recoil.
I grew up on big bore revolvers and even the numbers above speaks for the effectiveness of the 357 Magnum, but it isn't as easy to be accurate with it as it is with my 45, nor does the 45 have the same recoil.
(0)
(0)
2
2
0
I carried and qualified with the M9 while I was in. I just took the the NRA course to be allowed to carry in the state of CT, and did just as well with the .40 and the .45 as I did with the 9mm. I haven't decided what I am going to carry yet.
(2)
(0)
CW2 (Join to see)
Yeah...I'm thoroughly depressed to say I'm from CT. That state has lost it's mind on guns, and a lot more.
(0)
(0)
2
2
0
We all tend to be biased towards what we grew up with. I couldn't believe how loose and sloppy the old issue 1911s were. We were taught never to use them beyond 20 yards or so because you were likely to miss in the pumped up action of battle. Remember this isn't a range thing. Then I couldn't believe how accurate a 1911 could be when I started shooting service match with a 1911 that to this day remains better than I am.
For military use, FMJs are in keeping with treaty, hence the photograph of JHPs isn't relevant. My sense is you'll be best at what you're most comfortable with. It will be interesting to see what FMJ cartridge configuration comes out of the ongoing evaluation.
For military use, FMJs are in keeping with treaty, hence the photograph of JHPs isn't relevant. My sense is you'll be best at what you're most comfortable with. It will be interesting to see what FMJ cartridge configuration comes out of the ongoing evaluation.
(2)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google