Posted on Jun 14, 2016
Why is it acceptable now for people to insult President Obama, when it was unacceptable with former President Bush?
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I did come in at the tail end of President Bush's presidency, so perhaps it's perspective , but even in civilian life it came across as "treasonous" to insult, mock or in question the loyalty of the current President.
Since President Obama has taken office, I'm heard blatant insults, remarks on his religion and national origins and blatant statements now about his loyalty, even in this community.
Edit: I'm not discounting that President Bush was insulted. I fully acknowledge that he was. This is also wrong in my opinion. Why was that tolerated previously, why is insulting our current President tolerated now?
Edit 2 : For those that just come on for an easy way of saying "This political party is the reason for all of x, y and z", I'm basically going to ignore you. It's not the point of the conversation and you add nothing to the conversation.
Since President Obama has taken office, I'm heard blatant insults, remarks on his religion and national origins and blatant statements now about his loyalty, even in this community.
Edit: I'm not discounting that President Bush was insulted. I fully acknowledge that he was. This is also wrong in my opinion. Why was that tolerated previously, why is insulting our current President tolerated now?
Edit 2 : For those that just come on for an easy way of saying "This political party is the reason for all of x, y and z", I'm basically going to ignore you. It's not the point of the conversation and you add nothing to the conversation.
Posted in these groups: 
Respect
Office of the President (POTUS)
Respect Office of the President (POTUS)
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 42
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I think common courtesy is sorely in need-You must be rewriting history as Pres Bush received more than his share of insults etc from those on the leftt while he was president. To Pres Bushes credit he has pretty mush withheld comment on Pres Obama's performance, something I'm sure we wont see when Obama leaves, especially if Trump get the presidency.
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There was plenty of vitriol aimed at GW Bush, even in this forum.
Those of us who serve are affected greatly by the decisions the men we have elected President have made. We also have sworn an oath to follow the orders that he issues as well as one that compels our respect and deference to our civilian leaders.
Having said that, debating the merits of policy and the methods of execution thereof is as American as it gets, even in the ranks. We just have to salute smartly when the order is given.
Those of us who serve are affected greatly by the decisions the men we have elected President have made. We also have sworn an oath to follow the orders that he issues as well as one that compels our respect and deference to our civilian leaders.
Having said that, debating the merits of policy and the methods of execution thereof is as American as it gets, even in the ranks. We just have to salute smartly when the order is given.
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Everyone gets their fair share of insults and blasts. Everyone else will complain about it. I don't condone spouting off insults to anyone, and while I defend the right to free speech, I don't think it's necessarily appropriate for unnecessary meanness, regardless of one's position.
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Simple, its not. Bush was republican, the majority of the military is republican, leads to less acceptance for criticism/insults. Obama is a democrat, the majority of the military is not democratic, thus less people agree and there is more criticism.
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1SG (Join to see)
I can only speak for myself, but when I get bent at the POTUS (past or present) it tends to be for the policies and/or questionable statements they make, not because of their political affiliation.
Interestingly, in recent years nearly every war we have waged has been opposed by the party not in the White House with very few exceptions. We have made the application of military force a political football, and that is a shame.
Interestingly, in recent years nearly every war we have waged has been opposed by the party not in the White House with very few exceptions. We have made the application of military force a political football, and that is a shame.
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From a personal viewpoint (not speaking for others), it did bother me a little that people mocked, insulted, and questioned the loyalty of Bush; but this was because I supported Bush. However, I never claimed it was unacceptable to do any of this to the president. In fact, being critical of our leaders is the very epitome of the 1st amendment's freedom of speech, even if that free speech is less than classy and disrespectful. You see, IMO, in a free country, I don't see where we owe any loyalty, allegiance, or even respect for a given leader, now the office on the other hand, is a different story and it can be a very fine line.
In no way do I feel extreme criticism of a president is tantamount to treason. In fact, it is the very definition of liberty. And before anyone says it, death threats are beyond criticism and should not be protected.
Personally, I'm still divided on whether I question his loyalty or just his ideology. I mean, he keeps making statement such as "that's not who we are" and "that's not what America's about", well quite frankly, what he thinks we are, runs very much contrary to what America was founded on. So is he loyal to the country, or the country he wants us to be?
In no way do I feel extreme criticism of a president is tantamount to treason. In fact, it is the very definition of liberty. And before anyone says it, death threats are beyond criticism and should not be protected.
Personally, I'm still divided on whether I question his loyalty or just his ideology. I mean, he keeps making statement such as "that's not who we are" and "that's not what America's about", well quite frankly, what he thinks we are, runs very much contrary to what America was founded on. So is he loyal to the country, or the country he wants us to be?
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SGT (Join to see)
Well, at least you have a compelling stance and openly state your biases. I am, obviously, leaning a bit biasly on President Obama's side because I believe in his ideals at the start and because he kept his word on DADT, so he's given some favorability with me.
Hitting it off: I am not imply that one should be blindly loyal to any one leader, to include direct chains of command, nor should you abstain from critically addressing that leader's actions. However, service members are not truly allowed freedom of speech. That is a narrative that arisen sometime in the 2010s, you have a limited freedom of speech and expression while in the military.
What I am commenting on is when someone calls him a Muslim, or insinuates that he's secretly plotting with ISIS, or stating generic racist lines. This can even be taken to referring the President Obama disrespectfully by nicknames that can taken as disrespectful - as seen in the comments below.
You can have your opinions on his loyalty, but I think you'll find that not everyone views the United States as you do. I suspect you and I alone have vastly different views on the way it should develop.
Hitting it off: I am not imply that one should be blindly loyal to any one leader, to include direct chains of command, nor should you abstain from critically addressing that leader's actions. However, service members are not truly allowed freedom of speech. That is a narrative that arisen sometime in the 2010s, you have a limited freedom of speech and expression while in the military.
What I am commenting on is when someone calls him a Muslim, or insinuates that he's secretly plotting with ISIS, or stating generic racist lines. This can even be taken to referring the President Obama disrespectfully by nicknames that can taken as disrespectful - as seen in the comments below.
You can have your opinions on his loyalty, but I think you'll find that not everyone views the United States as you do. I suspect you and I alone have vastly different views on the way it should develop.
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SPC Darren Koele
I always try to be open with my biases, though I don't always succeed. I figure, though our viewpoints may be worlds apart, let's at least have an honest discussion on where our views come from.
The references to Obama as a Muslim, or is aiding terrorists are definitely over the top an are only meant to rile people up. Though these types of personal attacks are not unprecedented. Read about the Andrew Jackson vs John Quincy Adams presidential election sometime.
I know not everyone sees the country as I do. Today, the popular view is more a collectivist one and I don't believe that is what the founders had in mind. I believe in individual liberty where the biggest in hindrance in my life is me. I believe that is more in line with what the founders desired. To coincide with individual liberty, I believe in community, not communism (or socialism or other collectivist ideology). Community is volunteerism, charitable giving, willfully helping your neighbors as opposed to forced giving through taxation and forced tolerance under which dissent is punishable by law.
If you views are more the collectivist type, I doubt we will never see eye other than it appears neither one of us tend to go "all in" with our leaders. That is to say, yes, I supported Bush, but I probably criticized him as much as I cheered for him. I suspect your feelings toward Obama are roughly similar.
Getting back to my viewpoint for a moment, basically, I don't like a government or society telling what I should think about this group or that group. So long as I am not violating anyone else's rights, why can't I have my own beliefs and morals. (This is a rhetorical question as I don't want to get sidetracked from the original discussion... perhaps at a later date.)
The references to Obama as a Muslim, or is aiding terrorists are definitely over the top an are only meant to rile people up. Though these types of personal attacks are not unprecedented. Read about the Andrew Jackson vs John Quincy Adams presidential election sometime.
I know not everyone sees the country as I do. Today, the popular view is more a collectivist one and I don't believe that is what the founders had in mind. I believe in individual liberty where the biggest in hindrance in my life is me. I believe that is more in line with what the founders desired. To coincide with individual liberty, I believe in community, not communism (or socialism or other collectivist ideology). Community is volunteerism, charitable giving, willfully helping your neighbors as opposed to forced giving through taxation and forced tolerance under which dissent is punishable by law.
If you views are more the collectivist type, I doubt we will never see eye other than it appears neither one of us tend to go "all in" with our leaders. That is to say, yes, I supported Bush, but I probably criticized him as much as I cheered for him. I suspect your feelings toward Obama are roughly similar.
Getting back to my viewpoint for a moment, basically, I don't like a government or society telling what I should think about this group or that group. So long as I am not violating anyone else's rights, why can't I have my own beliefs and morals. (This is a rhetorical question as I don't want to get sidetracked from the original discussion... perhaps at a later date.)
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SPC Darren Koele
Oh yeah, I forgot to touch upon the military. I think the military is held to a different standard and for good reason. Both units that I was in were quite lax in the discipline department, but you did not disrespect ANYONE in your chain of command, all the way to the president. I may have not liked it, but understood the rule and thought it was a good one. As a civilian, let the gloves come off.
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Why is it ok for democrats to portray a presumptive republican nominee in this way?
http://mediaequalizer.com/brian-maloney/2016/06/hillary-supporting-website-selling-severed-trump-head-t-shirts
http://mediaequalizer.com/brian-maloney/2016/06/hillary-supporting-website-selling-severed-trump-head-t-shirts
Hillary-supporting website selling severed Trump head T-shirts | Image shows Clinton holding...
For a mere $27.68 a pop, the overtly pro-Hillary website Wonkette is peddling anti-Trump apparel, complete with Clinton holding The Donald’s severed head.
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SGT (Join to see)
I never said it was?
Also my question is about sitting Presidents and not possible ones. When the new one takes his/her position as our new Commander in Chief, I'll still not insult him/her.
Also my question is about sitting Presidents and not possible ones. When the new one takes his/her position as our new Commander in Chief, I'll still not insult him/her.
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Cpl (Join to see)
I see some critics here on RP, not necessarily from SM's who are still bound by the UCMJ, but veterans, they've earned the right to be critical.
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To my brothers and sisters still Active Duty, words to live by. Play the game until your ETS or retirement. Yes you are an American and have 1st Amendment rights but (no offense) you know you signed your life away right? That is what makes the military unique from other organizations in the country. You have rules to abide by; so follow them. Sure, you may not like the President but guess what, all you have to do is respect the office. Show that professionalism. Come to think of it, I have not liked some of my bosses as well but the Army taught me how to work with and for people that I didn't like. Do the job, complete the mission and save your opinions for when you ETS or retire.
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I don't think it is any more or less acceptable than it always has been. I think the issue is who is doing the reporting on it. The left supports Obama and the right doesn't. The right supported Bush and the left didn't. The left is definitely more vocal than the right so it gets more press and the left also finds it convenient to talk out of both sides of the mouth on this subject. It's free speech to insult Bush. Somehow it isn't to insult Obama. Forked tongue.
As a civilian retiree, I do support the office of the President, I am NOT required support the person residing there. I don't condone insulting the office but the man is fair game. For those on active duty, it is a VERY fine line to follow. However, following a valid order is respecting the office even if you don't like the person who gave that order.
AND, I will NOT support a person who continually undermines the security and integrity of this country. The United States is a Democratic Republic, not an aristocracy.
As a civilian retiree, I do support the office of the President, I am NOT required support the person residing there. I don't condone insulting the office but the man is fair game. For those on active duty, it is a VERY fine line to follow. However, following a valid order is respecting the office even if you don't like the person who gave that order.
AND, I will NOT support a person who continually undermines the security and integrity of this country. The United States is a Democratic Republic, not an aristocracy.
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SGT I started insulting him before he went into office. The hand writing was on the wall with Joe the Plumber and the tingle go up the reporter's leg. You do know that people actually went to the bank and asked when Obama was going to make their house payments.
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Some people will throw a lot of regs. At you and tell you it is ok out of uniform. I served my entire career and did not speak ill of any president sitting or past. I still don't. There is a decision you have to make. What kind of man are you? And what kind of soldier are you? Correct it when you hear it or let it go and watch it grow. It is really up to you. I personally do not like it and point it out when I hear it.
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