Posted on Sep 8, 2016
Why is there such a long wait for reserve component officer and warrant federal recognition/promotion?
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Can anyone tell me why the process takes so long for RC officer/warrant promotions to run through the FedRec cycle? I'm an ARNG officer and I've had my state promotion orders for CPT since the middle of April. I've been tracking my packet on the ARNG-G1 website and it was awaiting addition to a scroll until a month ago and last week the scroll was ready to start the approval DoD cycle. Thoughts?
Promotions
Officer
Warrant Officers
Personnel
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 419
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Is it too soon to start complaining about P06-18? At G1 for almost a month now...
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1LT (Join to see)
I have been thinking the same thing for P07-18. If you look at the proposed timeline its supposed to be done in 50 days from DCS G1 to Secdef approval.
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1LT (Join to see)
CPT(P) (Join to see) - P07-18 hit SECEF as well. Hopefully they have swift pens to push our stuff through.
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The maddening part about this whole process isn't the wait. It's the lack of transparency in the whole process. There is no apparent reason for a particular scroll to take longer in one station than one of the other's. Example, Scroll P07-18 (my scroll) took less than a week to get through JAG and DMPM, whereas multiple other scrolls took months just to get through JAG.
I'm in no way saying there needs to be another bureaucratic committee, but an investigative oversight group that could be outsiders looking in and seeing how this affects careers would be helpful. Or even just less eyes looking at it. Why can't we have a "Promotion's Department" or even a planned schedule upon receiving our state promotion orders? I digress... I'm not really looking for those questions to be answered, I'm merely beginning to understand the frustrations of the 2017 Scrolls, although I'm nowhere near their struggle-bus level, with my paltry 120 days.
Good luck to all you future promotables out there! I sincerely hope the system is fixed prior to you being assigned a scroll.
I'm in no way saying there needs to be another bureaucratic committee, but an investigative oversight group that could be outsiders looking in and seeing how this affects careers would be helpful. Or even just less eyes looking at it. Why can't we have a "Promotion's Department" or even a planned schedule upon receiving our state promotion orders? I digress... I'm not really looking for those questions to be answered, I'm merely beginning to understand the frustrations of the 2017 Scrolls, although I'm nowhere near their struggle-bus level, with my paltry 120 days.
Good luck to all you future promotables out there! I sincerely hope the system is fixed prior to you being assigned a scroll.
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1LT (Join to see)
David I am on the same scroll as you. I was baffled at how fast we went through JAG but I believe we will probably sit at DCS, G1 for a long time. The tracker is no where up to date, since if you look at the proposed timeline it should only be at DCS, G1 for approximately 2 days. So I have a feeling the next update we see will be the SECDEF.
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Ok now that we have gotten our promotions how do we backdate the DOR. We have strength in numbers. We need to share the intel as we get it. Anyone trying to backdate the DOR yet?
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MAJ (Join to see)
For whatever reason this this STILL has not hit my iPerms yet. BN is looking into it but the response from higher was "SIB-X is still showing his DOR xxx and RCAS WEB no publish order. Probably back logged give it a few more days then follow up." Normally it takes a day or two from what I recall. Still embracing the suck here...
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CPT (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) - It took WEEKS for me. I literally checked AKO, Iperms, ORB, everywhere for the update several times a day. I think my email first showed Captain, then eventually like 3 weeks later it showed up on AKO.
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MAJ (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) - Nothing of mine has updated other than my FedRec tracker which is not showing anything anymore.
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CPT (Join to see)
#FEDREC U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren questioned Secretary of the Army Mark T. Esper during a Senate Armed Services Committe hearing, the delays of National ...
I completely agree. I've been in touch with my MoCs about the process, and am copying my latest response to them below. I'm not sure if backdating our DOR to the state order date is feasible for us (obviously it would be amazing, but I'm not sure where they would draw the line on who gets their DORs back that far?), so I've approached it in the way below. I completely agree with you, though! If we can come up with something standard, we might could get some traction. The new legislation is a hopeful step forward. :) If anyone has other ideas for fixes that we could advocate for for those of us not covered by the newly proposed legislation, I would be grateful for the discussion!
"Thank you very much for your response! I truly appreciate your time.
I know that many of my colleagues around the country have been reaching out to their elected officials, and that legislation was introduced in the House and the Senate to address this issue going forward, through the National Guard Promotion Accountability Act, by proposing that National Guard officers' date of rank be back dated to their state promotion order date when they finally receive federal recognition. That, coupled with improvements to the antiquated promotion process (as discussed by Secretary Esper in this April committee meeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVWA3oymymI&t=5s), provide me with much gratitude and hope for the process in the future. As a service member himself, I respectfully ask that the Congressman support this legislation.
My overarching concern now, though, are the service members like myself who, over this past fiscal year, experienced the worst of the effects of the broken system and currently have no recourse to remedy the negative consequences from this elongated process that has now irreparably impaired our future career trajectory. Although I was eligible for promotion in September of 2016, I did not officially begin earning time in grade for my next promotion until April 2018 when I finally received my federal recognition; over a year after my state promotion orders.
Respectfully, my suggestions for improvement would be to allow a way for those officers who have been effected by this process, but will not immediately benefit from the upcoming legislation if it passes (since it will only take effect for those promotions issued after the legislation is signed into law), to apply for a date of rank correction through the Department of the Army Board for Correction of Military Records. Two suggestions for accomplishing this may be:
1. Introduce new legislation to pair with the National Guard Promotion Accountability Act to allow all officers serving in their current rank, which took effect prior to the legislation passing and took longer than the stated timeline for federal recognition (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/workforce/documents/WO_fed_rec_board_staffing_fy17.pdf), to apply to the ABCMR for a corrected DOR at a set number of days (120-150) after their state promotion orders, WITHOUT backpay. I can see how funding would be an issue here, and I know that the biggest concern for service members is not the backpay, but the date of rank and what that means for our future promotions, service opportunities, seniority in positions, etc.
2. Another suggestion would be to allow service members to apply 10 U.S. Code §14311(2)(d) to our case to have our DORs corrected, which sets guidelines for delays in promotions due to disciplinary action. It seems reasonable to me that if there are safeguards in place to ensure the timely promotion of service members even when they are facing disciplinary actions, that surely these same safeguards should be extended to those officers experiencing these lengthy delays through no fault of our own, are in good standing with the Army, and are not pending any disciplinary action.
I have been advised that soldiers who have previously applied to have their DORs corrected through the Army Board for Correction of Military Records have been told that the Department of the Army does not have jurisdiction to change our DORs because the promotion orders for Army National Guard Officers are signed by the Office of the Secretary of Defense. I am respectfully requesting that the Secretary of the Army be notified of his authority to correct DORs for Officers in this instance through 10 U.S. Code § 741(4)(a) and 10 U.S. Code §14311(2).
Thank you again, profusely for your time.
Very Respectfully,
"Thank you very much for your response! I truly appreciate your time.
I know that many of my colleagues around the country have been reaching out to their elected officials, and that legislation was introduced in the House and the Senate to address this issue going forward, through the National Guard Promotion Accountability Act, by proposing that National Guard officers' date of rank be back dated to their state promotion order date when they finally receive federal recognition. That, coupled with improvements to the antiquated promotion process (as discussed by Secretary Esper in this April committee meeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVWA3oymymI&t=5s), provide me with much gratitude and hope for the process in the future. As a service member himself, I respectfully ask that the Congressman support this legislation.
My overarching concern now, though, are the service members like myself who, over this past fiscal year, experienced the worst of the effects of the broken system and currently have no recourse to remedy the negative consequences from this elongated process that has now irreparably impaired our future career trajectory. Although I was eligible for promotion in September of 2016, I did not officially begin earning time in grade for my next promotion until April 2018 when I finally received my federal recognition; over a year after my state promotion orders.
Respectfully, my suggestions for improvement would be to allow a way for those officers who have been effected by this process, but will not immediately benefit from the upcoming legislation if it passes (since it will only take effect for those promotions issued after the legislation is signed into law), to apply for a date of rank correction through the Department of the Army Board for Correction of Military Records. Two suggestions for accomplishing this may be:
1. Introduce new legislation to pair with the National Guard Promotion Accountability Act to allow all officers serving in their current rank, which took effect prior to the legislation passing and took longer than the stated timeline for federal recognition (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/workforce/documents/WO_fed_rec_board_staffing_fy17.pdf), to apply to the ABCMR for a corrected DOR at a set number of days (120-150) after their state promotion orders, WITHOUT backpay. I can see how funding would be an issue here, and I know that the biggest concern for service members is not the backpay, but the date of rank and what that means for our future promotions, service opportunities, seniority in positions, etc.
2. Another suggestion would be to allow service members to apply 10 U.S. Code §14311(2)(d) to our case to have our DORs corrected, which sets guidelines for delays in promotions due to disciplinary action. It seems reasonable to me that if there are safeguards in place to ensure the timely promotion of service members even when they are facing disciplinary actions, that surely these same safeguards should be extended to those officers experiencing these lengthy delays through no fault of our own, are in good standing with the Army, and are not pending any disciplinary action.
I have been advised that soldiers who have previously applied to have their DORs corrected through the Army Board for Correction of Military Records have been told that the Department of the Army does not have jurisdiction to change our DORs because the promotion orders for Army National Guard Officers are signed by the Office of the Secretary of Defense. I am respectfully requesting that the Secretary of the Army be notified of his authority to correct DORs for Officers in this instance through 10 U.S. Code § 741(4)(a) and 10 U.S. Code §14311(2).
Thank you again, profusely for your time.
Very Respectfully,
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I could be mistaken, but I don't think a single scroll has been approved this week. Today is still early though....
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CW5 (Join to see)
I'm only guessing, but based on 'effective date of rank' I have seen on here, it must take about 10-14 days (at least) for the whole process to unwind and go from OSD back to NGB HRP...
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When this journey began I checked the tracker once a month. As my scroll finally started moving, I was checking it once a week. When it cleared DMPM/JAG I started checking it once a day. It has since become an obsession. Now that it is at SECDEF I find myself checking it several times a day. I will be glad when the madness is over. U13-17, 278 days...and still counting.
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MAJ (Join to see)
This is no way to live!!! ... with this pending bill ... I wonder if i'm better off hoping FEDREC is delayed?
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MAJ (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) - No way man. this bill wont do what we hope it does. It may help going forward but there is no way it will retroactively look at all the scrolls affected and initiate back pay and date of rank corrections.
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CW5 (Join to see)
I think that the new bill, once signed, will happen too late for those of us that really needed the help. But now I find myself hoping the scroll signing will get delayed until after POTUS signs the new law...how's that for irony.
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MAJ (Join to see)
CW5 (Join to see) - Not to mention, that once this bill does go into effect and they adjust the (SM's in FEDREC at that time) date of rank to reflect their state order---you will not only be not backdated or back paid, but will also be outranked in TIG by those who will benefit from the bill.
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P15-17 just moved to OSD this morning on the tracker! Spent a total of 11 days at Sec Army.
Awaiting Off of Sec of Defense approval; P15-17; 226 Days in DoD Approval cycle
Awaiting Off of Sec of Defense approval; P15-17; 226 Days in DoD Approval cycle
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MAJ (Join to see)
SECDEF is getting crowded-better sign all those old 17 scrolls to make way for the new ones.
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MAJ Kahren Aydinyan
For sure! Would love to make room for all of the new scrolls.
Hoping to have these scrolls published this month before AT in early June...
In general, looks like scrolls have picked up their pace through the various offices. Ours only spent 11 days at Sec Army, whereas P10 scroll took >30 days.
Hoping to have these scrolls published this month before AT in early June...
In general, looks like scrolls have picked up their pace through the various offices. Ours only spent 11 days at Sec Army, whereas P10 scroll took >30 days.
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CPT Griff Tatum
I would bet good money that theyre starting to get more time hacks from HRC or whoever to get these things through. I think if they wait too long to move them from office to office or simply sign them, they get hammered by their supervisor because promotions will always just keep coming in. The amount will always be the same coming in, but the rate at which they process them is has to speed up or the process just gets slower by the hour.
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Here is an approximate office/timeline breakdown for any P10-17'ers interested in an overview of our "journey" so far...
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CPT (Join to see)
MAJ Kahren Aydinyan - Thank you for the heads up, sir! I will add AKO to my daily obsession routine. :)
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CPT (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) - Welcome. Sorry you're here with us, but misery loves company. ;)
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Finally some feedback on P12-17 from Ms. Marshall:
"You should not be contacting me directly about promotion scrolls. If information is needed your state OPM is the office to contact. However, P12-17 is currently processing with OSD. This is the final step in the process."
My FedRec tracker is still indicating "Awaiting Dir of Army Staff Appr" this monring thou.
"You should not be contacting me directly about promotion scrolls. If information is needed your state OPM is the office to contact. However, P12-17 is currently processing with OSD. This is the final step in the process."
My FedRec tracker is still indicating "Awaiting Dir of Army Staff Appr" this monring thou.
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1LT(P) (Join to see)
Who did you email to get that information. I see that she said not to email her directly but I would like to email her anyway. I have already spoke with my TAG and State CSM and would like to continue to reach out.
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MAJ Kahren Aydinyan
Her email is listed as the POC in the GKO portal just under the "Fed Rec Status" link.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Apparently 11-17 is at OSD as well. Marshall replied to someone yesterday-she didn't like being contacted but did answer their question.
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Here's my/ L04-17's breakdown as of 2 APR 18. I put in total days it took to hit each green (completed) phase and our next (yellow) anticipated phase marked my how many days it will have taken to actually move to that phase. If that makes sense. 151 days we have been at JAG (and all offices it encircles). My counter only counts from when the scroll started ticking (23 AUG 17), not when I was eligible. Ridiculous haha.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Try DPRO-Leadership reports; Officer Fed Rec Status; you should be able to see data from people in your units and can drill down on the individual and it gives you several tabs-go to Fed rec and it gives you the day count at each level
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CW5 (Join to see)
Interesting, right now DPRO still shows old data on the unit status page, but if I drill down to individual, it is updated with newer progress and matches what is on the individual G1 career center site. So many databases with so many inputs....
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CW5 (Join to see)
For some reason I am reminded of the question, "How do you become a millionaire?"....
Ans: Well, first you start with a million dollars....
Anyone in Personnel should have DPRO access, most leadership does. It isnt terribly accurate, but there is some data. For example, every time the FedRec status is updated can be viewed. It looks like as of about 80 days ago, the packet status started updating nearly every day, even if there was no movement.
My list U01-18 is on day 124. Other than "Scroll created" and day zero, my first update is at day 46, when it showed at JAG. Then there were updates pretty much every day until day 89 when moved to DMPM, then somewhat daily updates until 123 when showed SecArmy. An update on day 120 still said DMPM.
Obviously, there are quite a few steps in between (DCS-G1, ASA(M&RA), DAS, VCSA, CSA) that happened in there. Theres a whole lot of data, but turning it into valuable information is anyones guess... DPRO 'roughly' tracks with the G1 Career Tracker site, give or take a couple days...
Ans: Well, first you start with a million dollars....
Anyone in Personnel should have DPRO access, most leadership does. It isnt terribly accurate, but there is some data. For example, every time the FedRec status is updated can be viewed. It looks like as of about 80 days ago, the packet status started updating nearly every day, even if there was no movement.
My list U01-18 is on day 124. Other than "Scroll created" and day zero, my first update is at day 46, when it showed at JAG. Then there were updates pretty much every day until day 89 when moved to DMPM, then somewhat daily updates until 123 when showed SecArmy. An update on day 120 still said DMPM.
Obviously, there are quite a few steps in between (DCS-G1, ASA(M&RA), DAS, VCSA, CSA) that happened in there. Theres a whole lot of data, but turning it into valuable information is anyones guess... DPRO 'roughly' tracks with the G1 Career Tracker site, give or take a couple days...
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I'm 11 days away from hitting one year with State Promotion Orders. Hopefully Scroll P10-17 gets published before I hit that mark. Waiting on the FEDREC process has almost bought me another year TIG as a Major. Any update on status would be greatly appreciated.
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CPT (Join to see)
1LT (Join to see) - I know the feeling Brother. It's grueling. This will be my 5th summer as a 1LT as well. 4 years ago this would have been beyond comprehension if someone had told me the future. I don't get it.
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CPT (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) - No word yet. I think it has to be any day now. Weve been at SECDEF for over a month now.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Discouraging to see P10 still in the cue. Should be any day I am guessing.
Awaiting Dir of Mil Pers Mgmt; P11-17; 293 Days in DoD Approval cycle......
Awaiting Dir of Mil Pers Mgmt; P11-17; 293 Days in DoD Approval cycle......
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CPT (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) - And, discouraging to see P11 approaching 300 days as well.....hoping you all break through DMPM soon.
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I have not been on here for about a year, I'm sorry to see that nothing is better. Because of waiting time on the scrolls for W2 to W3 and W3 to W4 I will never make CW5. It has placed me to far outside the window. Good luck to all of you. There are some good congressmen out there that need something to do!
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Good to know people are talking about this problem... https://federalnewsradio.com/dod-personnel-notebook/2018/02/national-guard-officers-waiting-more-than-half-a-year-for-promotions/
National Guard officers waiting more than half a year for promotions
National Guard officers are facing longer wait times for their promotions from the Pentagon. A survey by The National Guard Association of the United States (NGAUS) found some officers were waiting more than six months for their promotions to receive federal recognition.
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COL (Join to see)
Congrats to everyone on D08-17! It's a shame you had to wait so long, but at least the wait is over.
On a seperate note, P10-17 just became the longest running scroll on the list! lol
On a seperate note, P10-17 just became the longest running scroll on the list! lol
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CW3 (Join to see)
Have a couple of friends that left our unit for the IRR in 2014. They just decided to come back and start flying again. As they were doing their transfers and their in-processing they were congratulated on their promotion to CW3 while they were on IRR. It blows my mind that someone that decided to get out and is no longer serving gets promoted over those of us still in.
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CW5 (Join to see)
You request transfer to IRR. I dont think your State HAS to let you go, but if you have a good enough reason, and dont "owe" any time (whatever service obligations exist) they might do it.
IRR is Army Reserve, administered by HRC. People get promoted as I have seen, but I dont know how. A friend of mine was in the same boat, came back in NG after many years and they told him he had been promoted to W4, unknow to him...
IRR is Army Reserve, administered by HRC. People get promoted as I have seen, but I dont know how. A friend of mine was in the same boat, came back in NG after many years and they told him he had been promoted to W4, unknow to him...
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CW5 (Join to see)
We have been advised to NOT contact NGB directly. There is nothing NGB can do once the packets leave them. NGB is fed updates from DA periodically so there are obvious update delays to the G1 portal. Army Directive 2016-26 (Screening Requirements for Adverse and Reportable Information for Promotion and Federal Recognition to Colonel and Below) is the directive that has caused the massive delays. Everyone up the chain knows there are serious issues with the promotion system but due to the "extreme vetting" IAW the directive there is not much recourse. There was a survey going around from NGAUS that we were encouraged to take to voice our concerns about the system and the effects it is having on our careers...I just hope they get them resolved by the time I'm eligible for CW5, I can't afford to lose too much more TIG ; )
Here is the latest flow chart I was given on the FEDREC process. As you can see their generic timeline is a little off.
Here is the latest flow chart I was given on the FEDREC process. As you can see their generic timeline is a little off.
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MAJ (Join to see)
I am way too angry to air my thoughts. I just hope the Army fixes this soon, otherwise the Guard will continue to hemorrhage good Officers needlessly.
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CW5 (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) - The only good thing I can say is that once you get on a scroll and make it through vetting, promotion is inevitable. I know a couple of guys from other states that called their congressmen. Let’s just say it didn’t help matters and only delayed their scrolls even more.
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MAJ (Join to see)
CW5 (Join to see) - P08-17 should be next in line, so it should happen soon, but this is so frustrating. I submitted my first promotion packet in July 2016...and I'm still an LT... :(
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STOP THE PRESSES A SCROLL WAS PUBLISHED!
From CW2 Brandon L: "u06-17 Published: SO# 22; 2018-01-25 and in IPERMS"
From CW2 Brandon L: "u06-17 Published: SO# 22; 2018-01-25 and in IPERMS"
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MAJ (Join to see)
Even though I am not promoted yet (08-17,) I am excited for those of 06-17! Congrats!
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CW3 (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) - Totally agree Sir, gives us a sense of hope now that scrolls are being published. Just a matter of time.
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I have been meaning to post some of the info I have learned. I am not saying that it is all absolutely correct, but I do my best not to relay any information that is only hearsay. If anyone has contrary information, I will be happy to dig in to an accurate answer.
I am NOT an official voice. I am doing my best to relay info. I do not speak for anyone at NGB and I have not coordinated this with anyone there. My experience is primarily with UVP of Warrant Officers. I focus on those, but dont know the differences in the normal DA Select process.
1. First and foremost, the Federal Recognition requirement (and process) is NOT invented by NGB. There are many historical instances that support it. Check out the history of Colonel Sanders, Kentucky National Guard (yes, he is real). What we go through at our State levels is a board that RECOMMENDS Federal Recognition. Only the President can grant Federal Recognition, which he has delegated to the Secretary of Defense. Federal Recognition is the certification that you meet the requirements to serve alongside your Regular Army peers in the event we are Federalized and called to Active Duty under Title 10.
2. NGB only accepts packets from the States and scrolls them. Their 'standard' is to accept within 10 days and assign to a scroll within 45 days. Once this is complete, and the scroll is transmitted to DMPM, their part in the process is complete, until the scroll is returned. NGB is doing some additional initial screening in an effort to cut down on the delays for issues caught further down the line and assist with the process. Generally, NGB says they are meeting their suspenses for scrolling.
3. The whole process at DA and DOD is just normal staffing. Any time a document moves from one place to another, there is always a lot of work. SecArmy has to approve before a doc goes to SecDef. CSA approves before it goes to SecArmy, Dir Army Staff approves before it goes to CSA, etc. Its bureaucracy, but its SOP whether a change to a Reg, a Policy Memo, or a Promotion Scroll.
4. The Exemplary Conduct Screening (at OTJAG) was expected to add about 45 days to the process. A normal Scroll (without screening) is expected to take 4 months, but NGR 600-101 allows packets to be submitted 120 days PRIOR to eligibility (TIG met). The Screening is directed by SecDef and SecArmy (Army Dir 2016-26), nothing to do with NGB. While it is taking 10 months in many cases, the EXPECTED time is approx 6 months, meaning it is running about 4 months longer. That is not good, but it is what ABCMR, et al, are looking at. Early in FY17, scrolls were taking 5-6 months (presumably with Screening). There are THOUSANDS of promotions that go through Screening each year and I was told that initially, there was one person doing all that screening.
5. Promotions to CW2 and 1LT are backdated. I was told this was to date of the State Fed Rec Board. For that reason, they are only done every quarter (at least for CW2) and are very LARGE lists. Of course this means they take longer. We all know how important it is to be able to pin on that rank! But at least you can take some comfort in the fact that pay is also backdated.
As I have posted before, new packets are electronically transmitted through TMT. This should help speed things up, but also provides greater visibility. However, the NGB G1Tracker we all use does not interface directly with TMT. There are updates being sent out via State channels that are more up to date than the Tracker. It would be nice to have an accurate Tracker, but we dont and it doesnt affect the status of your scroll in any way. We may not be able to track it, but it doesnt mean it is standing still.
I post this because I understand the desire for information. It doesn't solve the problem, but no one wants to lose any of you and the experience and skill you bring. By my count, there are 630 WOs somewhere in the process that have been accepted by NGB awaiting Fed Rec. A few of us are here, but there are a lot more going through it. Everyone appreciates what we all do, we just have to endure this for a while, but we will get through it. Call it an exercise in resilience. :-)
Discuss. Rationally, please. :-)
I am NOT an official voice. I am doing my best to relay info. I do not speak for anyone at NGB and I have not coordinated this with anyone there. My experience is primarily with UVP of Warrant Officers. I focus on those, but dont know the differences in the normal DA Select process.
1. First and foremost, the Federal Recognition requirement (and process) is NOT invented by NGB. There are many historical instances that support it. Check out the history of Colonel Sanders, Kentucky National Guard (yes, he is real). What we go through at our State levels is a board that RECOMMENDS Federal Recognition. Only the President can grant Federal Recognition, which he has delegated to the Secretary of Defense. Federal Recognition is the certification that you meet the requirements to serve alongside your Regular Army peers in the event we are Federalized and called to Active Duty under Title 10.
2. NGB only accepts packets from the States and scrolls them. Their 'standard' is to accept within 10 days and assign to a scroll within 45 days. Once this is complete, and the scroll is transmitted to DMPM, their part in the process is complete, until the scroll is returned. NGB is doing some additional initial screening in an effort to cut down on the delays for issues caught further down the line and assist with the process. Generally, NGB says they are meeting their suspenses for scrolling.
3. The whole process at DA and DOD is just normal staffing. Any time a document moves from one place to another, there is always a lot of work. SecArmy has to approve before a doc goes to SecDef. CSA approves before it goes to SecArmy, Dir Army Staff approves before it goes to CSA, etc. Its bureaucracy, but its SOP whether a change to a Reg, a Policy Memo, or a Promotion Scroll.
4. The Exemplary Conduct Screening (at OTJAG) was expected to add about 45 days to the process. A normal Scroll (without screening) is expected to take 4 months, but NGR 600-101 allows packets to be submitted 120 days PRIOR to eligibility (TIG met). The Screening is directed by SecDef and SecArmy (Army Dir 2016-26), nothing to do with NGB. While it is taking 10 months in many cases, the EXPECTED time is approx 6 months, meaning it is running about 4 months longer. That is not good, but it is what ABCMR, et al, are looking at. Early in FY17, scrolls were taking 5-6 months (presumably with Screening). There are THOUSANDS of promotions that go through Screening each year and I was told that initially, there was one person doing all that screening.
5. Promotions to CW2 and 1LT are backdated. I was told this was to date of the State Fed Rec Board. For that reason, they are only done every quarter (at least for CW2) and are very LARGE lists. Of course this means they take longer. We all know how important it is to be able to pin on that rank! But at least you can take some comfort in the fact that pay is also backdated.
As I have posted before, new packets are electronically transmitted through TMT. This should help speed things up, but also provides greater visibility. However, the NGB G1Tracker we all use does not interface directly with TMT. There are updates being sent out via State channels that are more up to date than the Tracker. It would be nice to have an accurate Tracker, but we dont and it doesnt affect the status of your scroll in any way. We may not be able to track it, but it doesnt mean it is standing still.
I post this because I understand the desire for information. It doesn't solve the problem, but no one wants to lose any of you and the experience and skill you bring. By my count, there are 630 WOs somewhere in the process that have been accepted by NGB awaiting Fed Rec. A few of us are here, but there are a lot more going through it. Everyone appreciates what we all do, we just have to endure this for a while, but we will get through it. Call it an exercise in resilience. :-)
Discuss. Rationally, please. :-)
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CW5 (Join to see)
Of special note, that I try and tell every WO I meet, get your packet in early!
Use that extra 120 days to get ahead of the game! We need to make sure that information gets the widest distribution!
NGR 600-101: An applicant may be examined for promotion (by the FRB) not earlier than 120-days in advance of completing the prescribed TIG requirements...
Use that extra 120 days to get ahead of the game! We need to make sure that information gets the widest distribution!
NGR 600-101: An applicant may be examined for promotion (by the FRB) not earlier than 120-days in advance of completing the prescribed TIG requirements...
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CW3 (Join to see)
After being on this forum for over a year, and at the cusp of reaching 330-days, this information that you brought forth is perhaps the most insightful and useful thus far. Thank you!
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CW5 (Join to see)
I wish it was known a whole lot sooner! It may not change the outcome, but at least knowing WHY can sometimes reduce the sting.
I know that State CCWOs can be fearsome at times, but they are there for us! A CCWOs ONLY job is to relay information, and keep the Commander (or TAG) apprised of issues affecting the cohort! They defend US!
Also, in thinking, rather than having DA respond to a Congressional Inquiry with the basic facts, I still think your best voice is NGAUS. We all know the facts, the process is slow. DA is just answering the literal question. NGAUS is really the place I think that is best suited to bring about solutions. They wont ask a status (which is what Congress inadvertently does). They will identify the problem and fight for solutions.
Maybe somewhere in NGAUS the guy who can get the SecDef ear for a few minutes and ask him to clear the scrolls faster. As is pointed out, thats a big chunk of time right there!
Just my $.02
I know that State CCWOs can be fearsome at times, but they are there for us! A CCWOs ONLY job is to relay information, and keep the Commander (or TAG) apprised of issues affecting the cohort! They defend US!
Also, in thinking, rather than having DA respond to a Congressional Inquiry with the basic facts, I still think your best voice is NGAUS. We all know the facts, the process is slow. DA is just answering the literal question. NGAUS is really the place I think that is best suited to bring about solutions. They wont ask a status (which is what Congress inadvertently does). They will identify the problem and fight for solutions.
Maybe somewhere in NGAUS the guy who can get the SecDef ear for a few minutes and ask him to clear the scrolls faster. As is pointed out, thats a big chunk of time right there!
Just my $.02
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Here is an update to my post that I put on here....7-months ago. Feel free to add in your personal experiences!
Just think, that in the time that it takes to complete the FEDREC process for U06-17, it is equal to or more than:
1. A deployment, complete with PMT, DEMOB, and leave
2. A full year of college, to include summer session
3. A full-term pregnancy, followed by maternity leave
4. The time it takes to train a fighter pilot (average is 8-9 months)
5. An adjudicated TS clearance, complete with full scope poly
6. The Special Forces Qualification Course, minus language school (and that seemed forever)
7. Six(6) Ranger School Classes, possibly seven (7). Heck, a Ranger School student could recycle each phase twice and still graduate before U06-17 is completed
8. Lastly, I could watch my child grow from birth to that one-year mark when they are walking. Or in my case my child reached the age to graduate college, and then started to have a family of his own, thus beginning #1 all over again in an infinite cycle, much like Groundhog Day.
Just think, that in the time that it takes to complete the FEDREC process for U06-17, it is equal to or more than:
1. A deployment, complete with PMT, DEMOB, and leave
2. A full year of college, to include summer session
3. A full-term pregnancy, followed by maternity leave
4. The time it takes to train a fighter pilot (average is 8-9 months)
5. An adjudicated TS clearance, complete with full scope poly
6. The Special Forces Qualification Course, minus language school (and that seemed forever)
7. Six(6) Ranger School Classes, possibly seven (7). Heck, a Ranger School student could recycle each phase twice and still graduate before U06-17 is completed
8. Lastly, I could watch my child grow from birth to that one-year mark when they are walking. Or in my case my child reached the age to graduate college, and then started to have a family of his own, thus beginning #1 all over again in an infinite cycle, much like Groundhog Day.
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And to think, during the shutdown, or any shutdown for that matter, Congress still gets paid. At the same time, however, their aides do not get paid, and they are the ones doing all of the work. This scenario reminds me of the old MASH episodes with Radar O'Reilly and COL Henry Blake, except in this instance Radar is like a Congressional Aide and COL Blake is the Congressman. Radar (aide) would then present to COL Blake (Congressman) a huge stack of forms, with COL Blake asking, "What am I signing?". Radar replies, "You are signing this form to acknowledge your are signing the other forms, but those forms do not need a signature because this other form says so, but you need to sign this form that gives me permission to present these forms to you, which you do and do not have to sign....sir."
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They got tired of people complaining how long they were on the scroll so they fixed it! Now all of a sudden, when I try to go to Career Center to view how many days I've been on the scroll, I get an access prohibited message. Guess they decided if I can't see it cross the 200 day mark in a couple days, I can't complain! Fixed!
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We should all seek to have our DOR pushed back to the average time for completion based on where your scroll fits in the process. This way we don't lose out on future advancement.
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CPT (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) - seeing these other scrolls over 300 days doesn't give me much hope.
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MAJ (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) - I saw that and jumped on G1 earlier this morning....Day 280 at OSD :(
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It's the scroll system. If one packet on the scroll the whole scroll goes back . I had a friend that was on a scroll that was 4 months older than the scroll I was on yet I was promoted before her.
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CW3 (Join to see)
This is similar to those moving walkways in the airport, except you are walking in the opposite direction. That is, it takes extra effort just to maintain continuous momentum to go forward, then once you stop the moving (e.g. the JAG office reviewing the scroll) the walkway sends you backwards, almost to the point where you started. Yet you struggle to get to that exact point where you stopped, and then continue with that struggle to move past that point (e.g. JAG or Asst Sec Army) to try and reach the end. Along the way, however, and because you are exhausted, you stop, only for the walkway to send you backwards again, past that first stopping point and almost to the beginning. The cycle continues almost interminably, sort of like Sisyphus rolling the proverbial boulder uphill, thus condemning all of us to the eternal FedRec process. As an added measure, every night I go to sleep by placing one coin on top of each eye so I can pay Charon to ferry me across the river Styx to meet my fate at the hands of Hades, the holder of the scroll in the bowels of FedRec hell. Okay, admittedly my mind went off track on this one; I have no idea how I envisioned this silly analogy.
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This process and others like it need to be improved to the point that that it needs to be efficient and not let those in line for such action waiting for long periods of time.
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Scroll 13-17 (probably will end up being 01-18) created today. Only 200 days to go if Im lucky!
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MAJ (Join to see)
NGB receives scroll updates from the Pentagon once a month. Then NGB updates the scroll. The scroll could easily move through 2 offices by the time NGB updates the website.
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CPT (Join to see)
We moved to Awaiting Dir Ch of Staff Pers approval!! Maybe this means only a few more months?!
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Update for P07-17; Currently my status shows "Awaiting Dir of Mil Pers Mgmt; P07-17; 122 Days in DoD Approval cycle" and RED. I decided to email the folks at NGB and this is what I was told by CW3 Poppy...
Sir,
As of 21 Jun 17, that scroll as at DAS (Dir of Army Staff). There are a couple of offices in the process that are NOT listed in eTracker after this office. It has a few more offices to go before being signed. Once signed, it has been taking anywhere from 2-4 weeks for us to receive the signed scroll so that we can publish orders.
I do not know what the 'color coding' represents. I have asked the contractors to provide us the perimeters (meaning) or remove the color coding all together. (We have heard nothing from them!) The colors are off if you ask me....the further you go through the process, it should be going 'green' not 'red'. At the beginning, it is 'green'. (?) If you are at 123 days, you are doing good...trust me! Some are much longer and were submitted prior to your scroll. We have no control over the packets after they are sent to the Pentagon (HQDA G1).
So pretty good news even though the tracker doesn't reflect this. Keep your heads up!
Sir,
As of 21 Jun 17, that scroll as at DAS (Dir of Army Staff). There are a couple of offices in the process that are NOT listed in eTracker after this office. It has a few more offices to go before being signed. Once signed, it has been taking anywhere from 2-4 weeks for us to receive the signed scroll so that we can publish orders.
I do not know what the 'color coding' represents. I have asked the contractors to provide us the perimeters (meaning) or remove the color coding all together. (We have heard nothing from them!) The colors are off if you ask me....the further you go through the process, it should be going 'green' not 'red'. At the beginning, it is 'green'. (?) If you are at 123 days, you are doing good...trust me! Some are much longer and were submitted prior to your scroll. We have no control over the packets after they are sent to the Pentagon (HQDA G1).
So pretty good news even though the tracker doesn't reflect this. Keep your heads up!
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MAJ (Join to see)
Yeah I'm trackin Awaiting Sec of Defense approval, which apparently is our last step. There is at least three other scrolls awaiting sec def approval so hopefully that happens soon.
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MAJ (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) - I don't want to jinx it, but we've been moving a bit faster compared to other scrolls. Hopefully things are improving with this god awful process.
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P03-17 Update: The three soldiers with negative background information have been dropped from our scroll and we are moving ahead normally. I didn't get a timetable, but was assured we are now moving.
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MAJ (Join to see)
I've been sitting in an 04 slot for 3 years now. I completed ILE as a CPT, have my masters degree and all educational requirements met. I originally submitted my packet as a unit vacancy promotion which I will NEVER do again. I watched as CPTs that don't have ILE or a masters degree get promoted because they were boarded and eeked their way through. In all actuality, it benefited them to procrastinate on their career while those who took the time to meet the expectations were placed on the back burner.
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CPT(P) (Join to see)
All 11 years I've been in vacancy promotions have been the gold standard. Clearly that isn't the case anymore.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Day 238..... so much for our "expedited " scroll......time for somebody else to ping NGB & see if they get the same standard "30-45 day till orders published" response that we have been getting for the past few months..........
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CPT(P) (Join to see)
P03-17 is at SecDef now. As soon as it is signed there we will at least have DOR. Maybe they can get the scroll published by next year.
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