Posted on Mar 21, 2019
Why would a Chain of Command be against helmet mounted GoPro cameras?
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Hopefully there is a CSM or LTC or above that can help answer this question, I would love some assistance understanding this. Why would a Chain of Command be against helmet mounted GoPro cameras? I asked mine if it was okay to use one during our upcoming PLFX and Company LFX during daylight hours. The intent is for AAR purposes, like football game film. I was told no. I know it isn't because how we train is classified, our manuals can be found and accessed all over the internet....
Is it CYA? Are they scared of Army WTF moments on Facebook? Is it some off the wall liability issue? There is nothing in the division standards on Gopros, so what's the problem?
Is it CYA? Are they scared of Army WTF moments on Facebook? Is it some off the wall liability issue? There is nothing in the division standards on Gopros, so what's the problem?
Platoon Sergeant
CSM
Battalion Commander
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 30
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LTC (Join to see)
The CG or COG brief the team on the mission and and the highlights of the upcoming rotation. Every OC team then reserves the Vultures to film on specific training days to capture the CGs vision. It then gets edited, add some music and then it’s ready for MidRo AAR or Final. LTC Jason Mackay
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LTC (Join to see)
I understand the issue now. I’d get with the S3 and simply explain the task/purpose of the GoPro in your AAR. I’d go as far as making an AAR packet with video from the GoPro so the CoC can visualize your intent. SFC (Join to see)
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SFC (Join to see)
LTC (Join to see)
I was 3 times as a guest, and very open to be one fully on I have KD'd. I am not one currently, but that is where I discovered the value of filming training.
I was 3 times as a guest, and very open to be one fully on I have KD'd. I am not one currently, but that is where I discovered the value of filming training.
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From a command perspective, mostly just too much of a liability. If someone is injured or there is an accident we already have procedures in place to investigate but the last thing a command needs is that footage of the mishap leading to a potential break in the notification process of a casualty. As far as your tactics statement yes true our manuals are online readily accessable, but our adptive style as a military leaves some TTP's still unavailable unless present and participating in training, for the most part anyway. Just my 2 cents.
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SFC (Join to see)
I understand the importance of casualty reporting. Wouldn't the presence of the video speed up the 15-6?
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SGM (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) It could potentially speed it up or hinder it based on footage captured, maybe it wasn't even captured and the IO wastes an hour watching footage he/she didn't even need to but had to because it was present?
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Like anything else that could possibly find its way into the public domain, releases of verbal or written statements, videos, etc. need to go through the Public Affairs Office (PAO). If everyone in the US Military decided to video events, and release footage (edited or not) at their own discretion, the PAO would be very busy putting out fires these servicemembers started. Just look at how certain unit commanders react when their troops put memos and pictures on US Army WTF Moments....
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It's mainly the army wtf moments a d something's that a unit may find that works isn't in the Manuel's , but you still don't want bad guys knowing what you can or would do. As far as who owns the footage? When you signed that paper you became Uncle Sam's property so they own you and everything about you. Sorry
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These do not belong in battle or training situations...PERIOD. If you want to record your physical stuff....do it on your own time.....not the military's. Serving in the military is not a social media/millenia person thing. This is the defense of our nation not gotcha moments...
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Let me begin by saying I am a leg. Now that I have surrendered my credibility
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CSM Richard StCyr
LTC (Join to see) - Struck me funny and got a good chuckle out it. Have a great day!
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NO GO with this CSM!
Personally I want Soldiers focused on their teammates, leadership, and mission not on a personal hero video. Secondly and most importantly are those personal videos are dangerous to SIGSEC AND OPSEC. My proof is to look at the Ukrainian War and how personal electronic communications (phone calls, social media posts) have led to effective targeting.
Personally I want Soldiers focused on their teammates, leadership, and mission not on a personal hero video. Secondly and most importantly are those personal videos are dangerous to SIGSEC AND OPSEC. My proof is to look at the Ukrainian War and how personal electronic communications (phone calls, social media posts) have led to effective targeting.
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Where in any FM or AR or DA PAM 670-1 are Go Pro's authorized accessories to be mounted on uniforms?
Can you guarantee that every GoPro will be turned off in the TOC? Or by the SIPR computers? Can you guarantee they won't "accidentally" make it into the latrines?
No reg authorizes them, and there's a world of liability issues for the Commander to eat... It's easy to call a Commander "scared" when you're not the one who'll be fired or scapegoated when things go wrong.
Can you guarantee that every GoPro will be turned off in the TOC? Or by the SIPR computers? Can you guarantee they won't "accidentally" make it into the latrines?
No reg authorizes them, and there's a world of liability issues for the Commander to eat... It's easy to call a Commander "scared" when you're not the one who'll be fired or scapegoated when things go wrong.
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I would rather my soldiers concentrate on their training and not worry about trying to get that YouTube world star viral moment. Also, a lot of lewd & comedic actions and conversations happen while in the field which civilians would find offensive and not politically correct.
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Things like that didn't exist when I was in, but if you feel there ia a legal liability you could check with the Legal counsel and ask for their input. If there isn't anything specific to a regulation it may be just a CYA on the part of the Cmdr.
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Wtf is wrong with this new generation wanting to record everything they do. It is called a memory. Quit being lazy and quit making an opportunity for someone to burn you or your unit.
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Vietnam changed the way the DOD thinks about press issues. They don't want any bad publicity like killing of innocents footage being shown on national tv, even though accidental. They want to control the flow of news out of the battle field. The press is mostly liberal and spins the war as being our fault and all casualties are due to our warmongering. That's why no go pros.
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Probably because it's not military issue, and possibly wouldn't have any idea what your intentions would be using such equipment
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I've been out since '97 but was on the forefront of helmet mounted camera trials for the Army especially in Airborne ops. I'll toss in my two cents from back in the day leaving out all the security, hacking issues that have already been addressed.
Personally I have my own GoPro now and I know it has fallen off my bike and my Kayak. This was a concern during initial testing on helmet mounted cameras. Are they securely fastened, won't fall off, and will they impede in your ability to perform your mission. Nothing will screw your day up than having a camera get caught up when your parachute is trying to deploy, or if you are moving at a fast speed and it catches a branch or something. Will it cause injury to the person wearing it? Will it cause your head to snap back.
Personally I have my own GoPro now and I know it has fallen off my bike and my Kayak. This was a concern during initial testing on helmet mounted cameras. Are they securely fastened, won't fall off, and will they impede in your ability to perform your mission. Nothing will screw your day up than having a camera get caught up when your parachute is trying to deploy, or if you are moving at a fast speed and it catches a branch or something. Will it cause injury to the person wearing it? Will it cause your head to snap back.
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If the army wanted you to have a go-pro, they’d have issued you one.
There are a whole lot of reasons why the Command could say ‘no’ to them. You’ve mentioned some of the possible reasons. Other responses have mentioned others.
But as so many Privates are often advised on Rallypoint, unless the order is illegal, the Command is probably good to issue it. The reason doesn’t really matter.
Best of luck
There are a whole lot of reasons why the Command could say ‘no’ to them. You’ve mentioned some of the possible reasons. Other responses have mentioned others.
But as so many Privates are often advised on Rallypoint, unless the order is illegal, the Command is probably good to issue it. The reason doesn’t really matter.
Best of luck
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SGT (Join to see)
CSM Michael Chavaree - for sure. However, per his description, SSG Walker’s unit doesn’t appear to issue them, or want soldiers wearing them.
SFC (Join to see) Apparently, you didn’t like my response. Short of asking your Company or Battalion Commanders, you might not get the answer you’re looking for. Some of the possibilities are the ones you originally mentioned.
Additionally, it’s not an illegal order. They might not even have a reason, other than they don’t like go-pros. But As NCOs, we sometimes forget the simplest advice, that orders don’t have to explained. If you don’t think that’s valuable to acknowledge or remember, good luck to you moving forward.
SFC (Join to see) Apparently, you didn’t like my response. Short of asking your Company or Battalion Commanders, you might not get the answer you’re looking for. Some of the possibilities are the ones you originally mentioned.
Additionally, it’s not an illegal order. They might not even have a reason, other than they don’t like go-pros. But As NCOs, we sometimes forget the simplest advice, that orders don’t have to explained. If you don’t think that’s valuable to acknowledge or remember, good luck to you moving forward.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see)
Now that I understand you better, the downvote has been removed. Your original post read more like "here's your butthurt form" than it was helpful.
Now that I understand you better, the downvote has been removed. Your original post read more like "here's your butthurt form" than it was helpful.
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) - Well that cerrtainly wasn’t the intention. I just generally think that the most basic advice generally applies to all ranks. (Additionally, I’ll never underestimate an Army Officer’s ability to justify an order simply as, ‘Because I said so’)
Privates don’t generally need to know ‘why’. But NCOs often get the benefit of knowing ‘why’. As originally described, it appears as though you weren’t given that benefit in this situation. Having probably gotten it in the past, it’s probably frustrating to now simply get a ‘no’, with no explanation.
It might be a little late for this training, but the next time, it might be more successful to go with a proactive ‘it’s better to ask for forgiveness than permission’ approach. As you’ve noted, go-pros dont appear to be prohibited by 670-1. And if anyone stops and asks why you’re wearing it (if they even notice), “well I’m wearing it for AAR purposes and to best maximize our training”.
Heck, they might even say that’s a great idea and recommend everyone wear one.
Best of luck
Privates don’t generally need to know ‘why’. But NCOs often get the benefit of knowing ‘why’. As originally described, it appears as though you weren’t given that benefit in this situation. Having probably gotten it in the past, it’s probably frustrating to now simply get a ‘no’, with no explanation.
It might be a little late for this training, but the next time, it might be more successful to go with a proactive ‘it’s better to ask for forgiveness than permission’ approach. As you’ve noted, go-pros dont appear to be prohibited by 670-1. And if anyone stops and asks why you’re wearing it (if they even notice), “well I’m wearing it for AAR purposes and to best maximize our training”.
Heck, they might even say that’s a great idea and recommend everyone wear one.
Best of luck
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There’s a ton of reasons on this one.
Number one being AR 670-1.
However, TTPs could be more easily studied by enemies. Also privacy issues. You’re capturing the faces of all of those around you. It’s most likely also got a little to do with a liability.
Number one being AR 670-1.
However, TTPs could be more easily studied by enemies. Also privacy issues. You’re capturing the faces of all of those around you. It’s most likely also got a little to do with a liability.
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SGT (Join to see)
Show me where it says you are allowed to mount a camera to your brainbucket. Don’t get your panties all in a wad. It’s a command decision. You may not like it or agree with it but it’s not your call. It’s part of being in the Army. Drink some water and drive on. I’ve got a few spare hugs if you need. SFC (Join to see)
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SGT (Join to see)
Chasing our own tails with back and forth about what an AR does and does not say is not helpful in generating understanding of an issue. I downvoted you, not because of what you said, but because the answer was lazy. I asked a question in here so that others can see it, and maybe gain some understanding as well. RP is not Facebook, it's a professional platform that allows SMs to exchange info, and help each other out. Instead of telling someone to "suck it up" and going team leader on someone, try actually having something that actually contributes to the conversation.
Chasing our own tails with back and forth about what an AR does and does not say is not helpful in generating understanding of an issue. I downvoted you, not because of what you said, but because the answer was lazy. I asked a question in here so that others can see it, and maybe gain some understanding as well. RP is not Facebook, it's a professional platform that allows SMs to exchange info, and help each other out. Instead of telling someone to "suck it up" and going team leader on someone, try actually having something that actually contributes to the conversation.
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