Posted on Sep 3, 2021
Will "Constitutional Carry" be the undoing of the 2nd Amendment?
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Should gun control advocates be hailing the rapid spread of Constitutional Carry laws rather than fearing them?
Sometimes giving people what they want is a great way of demonstrating that what they want isn't a good thing. For example, how many of us were given our first cigarette by a parent? Oh, how grown up we felt until we took that first drag. After several minutes of coughing and gagging and maybe even puking, we swore off of them, possibly making good on our oaths for life. And look at the British who voted for a socialist government immediately following WWII and then quickly voted it out after living with socialism for a brief period.
So now we have Constitutional Carry. It just became law here in Texas. Maybe it will be fine. Maybe not.
Those of us who served, especially in the infantry know about gun control. I well remember that first day on the firing line when the sergeant explained our first task: We were each facing down range with our rifles in our hands while standing in front of a wooden peg driven into the ground. On his command, we were to place our weapons on the ground with the barrels leaning on the peg facing down range and the butts between our feet while standing at attention. It took several repetitions of this simple task to satisfy his need for precision. In truth, he was establishing "control", making sure that we were paying attention and doing exactly what he wanted.
Gun control was likewise practiced on the battlefield. As a platoon leader, I would not allow anyone to "lock and load" until we were outside the wire and on return, I had the platoon file past me one man at a time to insure all weapons were cleared. Both outside the wire and in defensive perimeters, we assigned fields of fire. More gun control.
Currently, I am studying for my concealed carry permit. I most likely won't carry outside my home, but want to know the local laws (only moved here recently) and need a good refresher on gun safety as well as target safety (target environment, background, etc.). None of this knowledge is required for Constitutional Carry. Unlike driving which is a privilege and we must demonstrate driving knowledge and skill to get a license, Constitutional Carry is a right. No license required.
So, what's my point? (Do I really have to tell you?) If Constitutional Carry results in a plethora of tragedies, how will We the People respond? We can't just stop people from exercising a right. We must take it away from them.
No, I'm not advocating the elimination of the 2nd Amendment. I have long advocated for it. I am merely pointing out that inasmuch as we are now unleashing it in it's rawest form, we must now act to insure that people are prepared to exercise that right responsibly.
Sadly, We the People (well, most of US) aren't prepared to keep and bear arms responsibly. Once upon a time (long ago when the earth was without form and I was a school child) we learned those lessons in school. We grew up with firearms in the home. Pickup trucks in many high school parking lots could be seen with rifles and shotguns in rear window racks for students going hunting or target shooting after classes. Personally, I fired thousands of rounds of small bore ammunition as well as trap and skeet before I enlisted in the Army. And, as I mentioned above, I am taking the time to study local laws. I am a responsible gun owner and well appreciate the value of gun control.
I only hope and pray that my fellow citizens do as well...
Sometimes giving people what they want is a great way of demonstrating that what they want isn't a good thing. For example, how many of us were given our first cigarette by a parent? Oh, how grown up we felt until we took that first drag. After several minutes of coughing and gagging and maybe even puking, we swore off of them, possibly making good on our oaths for life. And look at the British who voted for a socialist government immediately following WWII and then quickly voted it out after living with socialism for a brief period.
So now we have Constitutional Carry. It just became law here in Texas. Maybe it will be fine. Maybe not.
Those of us who served, especially in the infantry know about gun control. I well remember that first day on the firing line when the sergeant explained our first task: We were each facing down range with our rifles in our hands while standing in front of a wooden peg driven into the ground. On his command, we were to place our weapons on the ground with the barrels leaning on the peg facing down range and the butts between our feet while standing at attention. It took several repetitions of this simple task to satisfy his need for precision. In truth, he was establishing "control", making sure that we were paying attention and doing exactly what he wanted.
Gun control was likewise practiced on the battlefield. As a platoon leader, I would not allow anyone to "lock and load" until we were outside the wire and on return, I had the platoon file past me one man at a time to insure all weapons were cleared. Both outside the wire and in defensive perimeters, we assigned fields of fire. More gun control.
Currently, I am studying for my concealed carry permit. I most likely won't carry outside my home, but want to know the local laws (only moved here recently) and need a good refresher on gun safety as well as target safety (target environment, background, etc.). None of this knowledge is required for Constitutional Carry. Unlike driving which is a privilege and we must demonstrate driving knowledge and skill to get a license, Constitutional Carry is a right. No license required.
So, what's my point? (Do I really have to tell you?) If Constitutional Carry results in a plethora of tragedies, how will We the People respond? We can't just stop people from exercising a right. We must take it away from them.
No, I'm not advocating the elimination of the 2nd Amendment. I have long advocated for it. I am merely pointing out that inasmuch as we are now unleashing it in it's rawest form, we must now act to insure that people are prepared to exercise that right responsibly.
Sadly, We the People (well, most of US) aren't prepared to keep and bear arms responsibly. Once upon a time (long ago when the earth was without form and I was a school child) we learned those lessons in school. We grew up with firearms in the home. Pickup trucks in many high school parking lots could be seen with rifles and shotguns in rear window racks for students going hunting or target shooting after classes. Personally, I fired thousands of rounds of small bore ammunition as well as trap and skeet before I enlisted in the Army. And, as I mentioned above, I am taking the time to study local laws. I am a responsible gun owner and well appreciate the value of gun control.
I only hope and pray that my fellow citizens do as well...
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1. no one being compensated for a Psychiatric disorder should be allowed to have firearms.
2. No one on medication for a Psychiatric disorder should be allowed firearms.
2. No one on medication for a Psychiatric disorder should be allowed firearms.
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Also of note: this would disqualify thousands of veterans as PTSD is a psychiatric condition and is often treated with medication.
SFC Casey O'Mally
SSG Edward Tilton, CPT Jack Durish
In the words of Demi Moore, "I strenuously object."
As SFC Thomas Foreman pointed out, many people with diagnosed psychiatric disorders exhibit no greater inclination to violent crime than a "normal" person. And those with diagnosed AND TREATED psychiatric disorders are FAR less likely to do such than those with undiagnosed and/or untreated disorders.
Creating such a rule would creating yet ANOTHER barrier to getting required help and treatment. Meaning that those people you fear will avoid getting help, avoid getting a diagnosis, and avoid taking medication. Those people you fear will *still* have their gun rights (because they never went and got diagnosed) - but now will have those gun rights while being *less* stable.
It is estimated that 1 in 5 adults suffer from some form of "mental illness." If you ask me, that number is actually much higher. If you try hard enough, I would bet that 90% of Americans qualify for *something* within the DSM. Sure, it is mild enough to cause no impediment to everyday life, but that does not mean it doesn't exist.
I am hyperactive - have been since I was a child. Back in the day, before there was ADHD, I was ADD and hyperactive. Nowadays, I have eliminated the ADD, but I am still hyperactive. When I sit at my desk, I am bouncing my feet, tapping a pen, etc. Some part of my body is always moving, unless I make a conscious effort to stop it, or I am asleep. That's in the DSM. I am still a fully functional adult, but I guess I no longer get my rights.
I am depressed. Currently rated for it by the VA. I take my meds twice a day. I haven't had a suicidal ideation since I was a teenager some 30 years ago. I have had exactly zero homicidal or suicidal thoughts linked to depression since I was a teenager (I have had a couple of *passing* homicidal thoughts involving egregious wrongings of my child, but they were thoughts, and not intentions or plans - and I think most parents would have been in the same boat). My depression, when it takes hold at its strongest, results in apathy and lethargy, not in suicidal thoughts or feelings. But hey, I guess if I don't feel like getting out of bed today, I just shouldn't be allowed to have a gun. Even when I *do* get out of bed, despite not feeling like it.
Transgender? No gun rights.
Depressed? No gun rights.
TBI? No gun rights.
Sex addict? No gun rights.
Gambling addict? Poor social skills? Chronic Pain? Hoarder? Too much time on internet games? Particularly bad periods (need a sick day)? No guns for you, you have a mental disorder.
Do you get a headache if you don't have your morning cup of joe? Well, you are addicted, no guns.
Oh, you GAVE UP caffeine to beat your addiction. Great. But that headache means you are suffering from withdrawal - you still get no guns.
In the words of Demi Moore, "I strenuously object."
As SFC Thomas Foreman pointed out, many people with diagnosed psychiatric disorders exhibit no greater inclination to violent crime than a "normal" person. And those with diagnosed AND TREATED psychiatric disorders are FAR less likely to do such than those with undiagnosed and/or untreated disorders.
Creating such a rule would creating yet ANOTHER barrier to getting required help and treatment. Meaning that those people you fear will avoid getting help, avoid getting a diagnosis, and avoid taking medication. Those people you fear will *still* have their gun rights (because they never went and got diagnosed) - but now will have those gun rights while being *less* stable.
It is estimated that 1 in 5 adults suffer from some form of "mental illness." If you ask me, that number is actually much higher. If you try hard enough, I would bet that 90% of Americans qualify for *something* within the DSM. Sure, it is mild enough to cause no impediment to everyday life, but that does not mean it doesn't exist.
I am hyperactive - have been since I was a child. Back in the day, before there was ADHD, I was ADD and hyperactive. Nowadays, I have eliminated the ADD, but I am still hyperactive. When I sit at my desk, I am bouncing my feet, tapping a pen, etc. Some part of my body is always moving, unless I make a conscious effort to stop it, or I am asleep. That's in the DSM. I am still a fully functional adult, but I guess I no longer get my rights.
I am depressed. Currently rated for it by the VA. I take my meds twice a day. I haven't had a suicidal ideation since I was a teenager some 30 years ago. I have had exactly zero homicidal or suicidal thoughts linked to depression since I was a teenager (I have had a couple of *passing* homicidal thoughts involving egregious wrongings of my child, but they were thoughts, and not intentions or plans - and I think most parents would have been in the same boat). My depression, when it takes hold at its strongest, results in apathy and lethargy, not in suicidal thoughts or feelings. But hey, I guess if I don't feel like getting out of bed today, I just shouldn't be allowed to have a gun. Even when I *do* get out of bed, despite not feeling like it.
Transgender? No gun rights.
Depressed? No gun rights.
TBI? No gun rights.
Sex addict? No gun rights.
Gambling addict? Poor social skills? Chronic Pain? Hoarder? Too much time on internet games? Particularly bad periods (need a sick day)? No guns for you, you have a mental disorder.
Do you get a headache if you don't have your morning cup of joe? Well, you are addicted, no guns.
Oh, you GAVE UP caffeine to beat your addiction. Great. But that headache means you are suffering from withdrawal - you still get no guns.
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SFC Casey O'Mally y’know I completely missed it being a barrier to treatment. I’m aware of that idea just forgot to mention it this time. And once again, I feel that part of it is *especially* relevant to the milvet community. We already have enough barriers to treatment.
On a 100% sincere note, I am glad that you were able to overcome past suicidal ideations and that you’ve found your normal.
On a 100% sincere note, I am glad that you were able to overcome past suicidal ideations and that you’ve found your normal.
CW3 Harvey K.
SFC Casey O'Mally - Your comments reminded me of an incident that further examines the question of "mental illness".
One of my roommates and I were headed back to our off-campus apartment one evening, when he suddenly stopped in mid sentence and mid-stride. I turned to look at him, and saw he was shaking visibly. He managed to point, and utter "C-c-cat!"
I looked ahead where he pointed and saw a half-grown kitten crossing the sidewalk, about 15 feet in front of us, then run across the street.
My roommate, a "strapping Irishman" explained his irrational fear of that kitten was due to his ailurophobia, a mental condition he could not reason himself out of, but could only live with.
One might certainly make the case that my roommate had a "mental illness", but I doubt that there would be any valid grounds for any denial of any rights because of it.
One of my roommates and I were headed back to our off-campus apartment one evening, when he suddenly stopped in mid sentence and mid-stride. I turned to look at him, and saw he was shaking visibly. He managed to point, and utter "C-c-cat!"
I looked ahead where he pointed and saw a half-grown kitten crossing the sidewalk, about 15 feet in front of us, then run across the street.
My roommate, a "strapping Irishman" explained his irrational fear of that kitten was due to his ailurophobia, a mental condition he could not reason himself out of, but could only live with.
One might certainly make the case that my roommate had a "mental illness", but I doubt that there would be any valid grounds for any denial of any rights because of it.
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I like how you frame it as a balance between a right and the responsibility incurred by that right.
I have always believed that owning firearms is a right. It’s also a power. Great power, great responsibility, something Uncle Ben said to Spider-Man.
I do not like most of those whom I term “hard core” hun advocates. They rarely talk about the responsibility or the power inherent in exercising the right. They just want an MLRS in their garage and seem to not care what happens to other people.
I also believe that NO right, no matter how enshrined in the Constitution, is so absolute as to be without some cautiously considered limitations.
Is open carry a right? Yeah. But it’s stupid to exercise it.
Is a concealed carry permit a right? Yeah, I personally think it should be “shall issue” but without some sort of background check and training, it’s stupid to exercise that right also.
I have maintained for decades that the real problem with the entire debate and discussion around guns is that the reasonable people don’t get air time. It’s always the extremists one way or the other. I think the NRA is a joke. I also think the Brady Campaign is a joke. They don’t want compromise, they want absolute victory.
Let’s inject some common sense and rationality into the conversation. There is lots of compromise to be had, that balances personal freedom with public safety. And maybe those of us who believe in the right can reengage in emphasizing the responsibility right alongside it.
I have always believed that owning firearms is a right. It’s also a power. Great power, great responsibility, something Uncle Ben said to Spider-Man.
I do not like most of those whom I term “hard core” hun advocates. They rarely talk about the responsibility or the power inherent in exercising the right. They just want an MLRS in their garage and seem to not care what happens to other people.
I also believe that NO right, no matter how enshrined in the Constitution, is so absolute as to be without some cautiously considered limitations.
Is open carry a right? Yeah. But it’s stupid to exercise it.
Is a concealed carry permit a right? Yeah, I personally think it should be “shall issue” but without some sort of background check and training, it’s stupid to exercise that right also.
I have maintained for decades that the real problem with the entire debate and discussion around guns is that the reasonable people don’t get air time. It’s always the extremists one way or the other. I think the NRA is a joke. I also think the Brady Campaign is a joke. They don’t want compromise, they want absolute victory.
Let’s inject some common sense and rationality into the conversation. There is lots of compromise to be had, that balances personal freedom with public safety. And maybe those of us who believe in the right can reengage in emphasizing the responsibility right alongside it.
SFC Casey O'Mally
You hit the nail very squarely here. For me, a lot of what you are talking about honestly boils down to respect. Respect for self, respect for others. I own a gun. Currently I have a felon living in my home (on parole, we are getting him back on his feet). Guess where my gun is? Not in my home. Because the state said (and I agree) that I can't have both a gun AND a convicted felon in my home. I had zero problems giving my gun to my father-in-law for safe keeping until my tenant is back out on his own. I probably would have done so without the state mandate.
Why? Because putting that felon and that gone together would have been completely disrespectful of my family, my neighbors, and my community. Why would I create that unnecessarily risky scenario?
Carrying concealed (or even open) without proper training? Disrespectful of all you encounter.
If we respect others in all things, not just guns, it goes a hell of a long way to creating personal responsibility, bridging gaps, and creating compromise.
The folks who are on the extremes aren't about respecting others - and that is why they are on the extremes.
(And yes, this can, for the most part, be generalized FAR beyond the "gun rights" discussion.)
Why? Because putting that felon and that gone together would have been completely disrespectful of my family, my neighbors, and my community. Why would I create that unnecessarily risky scenario?
Carrying concealed (or even open) without proper training? Disrespectful of all you encounter.
If we respect others in all things, not just guns, it goes a hell of a long way to creating personal responsibility, bridging gaps, and creating compromise.
The folks who are on the extremes aren't about respecting others - and that is why they are on the extremes.
(And yes, this can, for the most part, be generalized FAR beyond the "gun rights" discussion.)
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Here in Idaho, we have Constitutional Carry. Hell, in Idaho you can open carry AND carry concealed without a permit as long as you're at least 18 and can legally own a firearm. No training required. When our Governor signed that bill into law (allowing conceal carry without required training), he did state that he was concerned that folks will be carrying concealed weapons without training (and of course a bunch of us asked why he signed it into law if that was his concern). Thus far, we have not had an uptick in violence that involves firearms.
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CPT Jack Durish - What we have had is an uptick in DUIs, drug arrests, B&Es, and other crimes where some of the perps arrested did have firearms in their possession(s) but those firearms were not used in said crimes and also that those perps were not legally allowed to have firearms.
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