Posted on May 8, 2015
With all the changes to the military (Army especially), are we losing our way?
12K
22
13
4
4
0
I have read hundreds of posts on RallyPoint, and seen many more among Army Times and even general discussions.
I grew up around WW2 Airborne NCOs, as I was a reenactor prior to joining the military. These veterans taught me a lot abut how to take care of my troops and what a good Soldier/medic/NCO/officer would do to help his fellow Soldiers. They helped to instill a sense of pride in everything I did and taught me the Core Values before I knew them as the Core Values.
Fast forward to today: In 7 years in the Army, we have taken away unit patches, changed dress uniforms, changed PT uniforms (twice, plus variations), changed headgear (at least once), talked about getting rid of branch insignia, changed our combat uniforms (kinda twice...when I started, we still had some of the BDUs in our ranks).
I've also talked at length with some of my Soldiers, my leadership, and others. The military has changed as well. A few of these changes seem to indicate a loss of identity and pride in being a Soldier. USAWTFM posted recently about a Soldier posting about "it's a good day to go sell drugs" and posting pictures of marijuana on his Facebook page. There are stories of Soldiers ducking Retreat and boasting about it, people complaining of under-involved leadership, the suicide problem in the military. To me, I wonder how much of this is a loss of esprit de corps, discipline, and the "Band of Brothers" that made things possible.
Some of these seem to indicate to me a need to return to the traditions of the Army to help inspire confidence and pride in being a piece of history. I cannot speak outside of the Army, but the Marines do seem to maintain that tradition. How do we get back to basics, like taking care of Soldiers? Bringing together the "military Family"? Helping people to understand pride in the uniform and the significance of all of the awards, patches, and traditions?
Can the return to tradition help? It seems that we have a lot of problems that can be fixed by changing the mentality of the military to the "way it was", rather than focusing on trivialities like what kind of PT uniform, what kind of headgear, and changing our distinctive unit insignias.
Thanks in advance for the discussion. I'd love to hear the input from others. There are many more things I could add, but I want to hear from others. (Those that know me, know that I tend to "type a response to death"...tryin' to fix that).
v/r,
CPT Butler
I grew up around WW2 Airborne NCOs, as I was a reenactor prior to joining the military. These veterans taught me a lot abut how to take care of my troops and what a good Soldier/medic/NCO/officer would do to help his fellow Soldiers. They helped to instill a sense of pride in everything I did and taught me the Core Values before I knew them as the Core Values.
Fast forward to today: In 7 years in the Army, we have taken away unit patches, changed dress uniforms, changed PT uniforms (twice, plus variations), changed headgear (at least once), talked about getting rid of branch insignia, changed our combat uniforms (kinda twice...when I started, we still had some of the BDUs in our ranks).
I've also talked at length with some of my Soldiers, my leadership, and others. The military has changed as well. A few of these changes seem to indicate a loss of identity and pride in being a Soldier. USAWTFM posted recently about a Soldier posting about "it's a good day to go sell drugs" and posting pictures of marijuana on his Facebook page. There are stories of Soldiers ducking Retreat and boasting about it, people complaining of under-involved leadership, the suicide problem in the military. To me, I wonder how much of this is a loss of esprit de corps, discipline, and the "Band of Brothers" that made things possible.
Some of these seem to indicate to me a need to return to the traditions of the Army to help inspire confidence and pride in being a piece of history. I cannot speak outside of the Army, but the Marines do seem to maintain that tradition. How do we get back to basics, like taking care of Soldiers? Bringing together the "military Family"? Helping people to understand pride in the uniform and the significance of all of the awards, patches, and traditions?
Can the return to tradition help? It seems that we have a lot of problems that can be fixed by changing the mentality of the military to the "way it was", rather than focusing on trivialities like what kind of PT uniform, what kind of headgear, and changing our distinctive unit insignias.
Thanks in advance for the discussion. I'd love to hear the input from others. There are many more things I could add, but I want to hear from others. (Those that know me, know that I tend to "type a response to death"...tryin' to fix that).
v/r,
CPT Butler
Leadership
Tradition
Culture
Heritage
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
3
3
0
I was called "Old Fashioned" when I was 9 years old! So Yes, I agree that the Military needs to stop being used as a Social Experiment Group for Polititions, and go back to the Traditions that made our Army Strong!
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
Sir,
Great topic of discussion! First I think when you break it down to the simplest level there is only two thing that separates units from each other regardless of their mission and that is standards and discipline.
Units and building that "Band of Brothers" is accomplished by sharing hardships which can be created by frequent and realistic training. Crawl, Walk, Run. Give right and left limits allow Soldiers, NCOs, Officers to make mistakes and learn and recover from them.
Make these things important, talk about ethical decisions making processes, history, values, things that are important to you will reflect in the way that you lead, pride in unit, pride in self come through negotiation of hard obstacles.
Focus on the tradition of being a standard bearer for all that we do. Make the on the spot corrections and fix inappropriate behavior.
Read "The Generals" talks about some of these issues after WWI and during WWII.
Great topic of discussion! First I think when you break it down to the simplest level there is only two thing that separates units from each other regardless of their mission and that is standards and discipline.
Units and building that "Band of Brothers" is accomplished by sharing hardships which can be created by frequent and realistic training. Crawl, Walk, Run. Give right and left limits allow Soldiers, NCOs, Officers to make mistakes and learn and recover from them.
Make these things important, talk about ethical decisions making processes, history, values, things that are important to you will reflect in the way that you lead, pride in unit, pride in self come through negotiation of hard obstacles.
Focus on the tradition of being a standard bearer for all that we do. Make the on the spot corrections and fix inappropriate behavior.
Read "The Generals" talks about some of these issues after WWI and during WWII.
(3)
(0)
2
2
0
I'm pretty sure when the uniform was changed from the Lorica hamata to the Lorica segmentata, Titus Pullo turned to Lucius Vorenus and said..
"Gooor, there goes the Legion"!
"Gooor, there goes the Legion"!
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
I agree there are changes happening. I think the biggest issue that I noticed while I was in (2009-12) came from the entitled group. This group, for the most part, is small in percentage but is a group that is seen/known by all. This group wants all the rewards that the Soldier's who earn it receive, but don't want to do the steps required. Whether those steps come via studying material, prepping material or putting time in the gym to better themselves physically.
However, the entitled group is not just making their presence felt in the Military. This is a issue across our society as a whole. I've worked as a preschool teacher and seen this act by parents to working events where elementary aged kids get a participation ribbon for just trying.....participation ribbon is the same award the winner gets....heck, the kid who gets last place often times gets more attention than that of the winner. I'm rambling here but in closing, our society has changed and it is moving away from developing the winning mentality...and doing so from tough love if needed.
However, the entitled group is not just making their presence felt in the Military. This is a issue across our society as a whole. I've worked as a preschool teacher and seen this act by parents to working events where elementary aged kids get a participation ribbon for just trying.....participation ribbon is the same award the winner gets....heck, the kid who gets last place often times gets more attention than that of the winner. I'm rambling here but in closing, our society has changed and it is moving away from developing the winning mentality...and doing so from tough love if needed.
(2)
(0)
1
1
0
Having been out since 2002, I have to ask "Are the changes supported by need?" (I'm an outsider looking in)
In other words, are they changes based on a course of natural evolution? Not to compare the Army to the Marines, but the USMC swap from BDU to MARPAT was an "evolutionary change." The Army swap from BDU to ACU was also an "evolutionary change" (though the color choice may not have been the greatest compared to using two).
The other changes mentioned, did they have the same "pragmatic" value? Did they add or detract to the service?
In other words, are they changes based on a course of natural evolution? Not to compare the Army to the Marines, but the USMC swap from BDU to MARPAT was an "evolutionary change." The Army swap from BDU to ACU was also an "evolutionary change" (though the color choice may not have been the greatest compared to using two).
The other changes mentioned, did they have the same "pragmatic" value? Did they add or detract to the service?
(1)
(0)
CPT (Join to see)
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - I wholly agree that the functional change to the ACU was a requirement. My biggest concern/question is whether or not we are focusing too much on functional change and missing the bigger picture of what makes us as a military great: Our culture. There are some units that still maintain a tight cohesion, but I see many others that have lost that bond/pride.
Some people talk about arrogance and boastfulness when a Soldier says "I was part of 10th Mountain, and we were the BEST." But in reality, I would rather my MTO units think that they are the best, because that is what will bring Soldiers home alive. Also, the problems with suicide and rape in the military are other illustrations where Soldiers feel like an outsider to their own unit.
I'm more wondering if focusing on these less critical changes to take a moment to restore the sense of culture and belonging would have a benefit on morale/retention.
v/r,
CPT Butler
Some people talk about arrogance and boastfulness when a Soldier says "I was part of 10th Mountain, and we were the BEST." But in reality, I would rather my MTO units think that they are the best, because that is what will bring Soldiers home alive. Also, the problems with suicide and rape in the military are other illustrations where Soldiers feel like an outsider to their own unit.
I'm more wondering if focusing on these less critical changes to take a moment to restore the sense of culture and belonging would have a benefit on morale/retention.
v/r,
CPT Butler
(0)
(0)
1
1
0
Air Force guy here, so my playground is a little different. My branch of service was born out of embracing change. I've studied the great Gen Billy Mitchell and his battle for the skies, and it reflects a 1930's Army & Navy resistant to flexibility. Reading your list of changes the Army has gone through in just the last few decades, I'm actually surprised it has been as maneuverable as you describe.
That said, I think you're comparing apples to screwdrivers.
It feels like you have two complaints. Functional change vs. cultural change.
Functional change is good. Technology is growing, we're fighting an asymmetric war, the Army needs functional change. This isn't limited to PTUs or helmets either, even ways of structure that once seemed foundational to what the Army is, in my AF opinion, should be up for review constantly to see if there is a better way of doing things. History, to me, is to be learned from and improved upon, not glorified and enshrined.
That said, what I believe you really mean, is that a cultural change is taking place. I do not believe this is limited to just the Army, and I do not believe it is a reflection of any of the aforementioned 'functional' change.
We are, for better or worse, a nation at war for almost a decade and a half. In that time, we have experienced loss, hard loss. We have learned new TTP. We have made the decision that reducing some standards in order to get more people is better. We have made the decision to "reflect" the values of our civilian counterparts.
This reflection, along with the continued growth of the 'everyone gets a trophy' and 'me first' generation, has created an unholy synergy of:
-Warfighters who do not respect their leadership because their opinion is 'better'
-View of the military as a 9-5 with off-hours being your own
-A hollowed NCO core stripped of its authority due to over-extension of officers or burnout of decent mentors.
I don't know the fix. I'm learning new things every day. I'm observing those who have "got it right". The solution will not be formulaic, but it will be led by those who care. Finding them is urgent, and certainly not easy.
That said, I think you're comparing apples to screwdrivers.
It feels like you have two complaints. Functional change vs. cultural change.
Functional change is good. Technology is growing, we're fighting an asymmetric war, the Army needs functional change. This isn't limited to PTUs or helmets either, even ways of structure that once seemed foundational to what the Army is, in my AF opinion, should be up for review constantly to see if there is a better way of doing things. History, to me, is to be learned from and improved upon, not glorified and enshrined.
That said, what I believe you really mean, is that a cultural change is taking place. I do not believe this is limited to just the Army, and I do not believe it is a reflection of any of the aforementioned 'functional' change.
We are, for better or worse, a nation at war for almost a decade and a half. In that time, we have experienced loss, hard loss. We have learned new TTP. We have made the decision that reducing some standards in order to get more people is better. We have made the decision to "reflect" the values of our civilian counterparts.
This reflection, along with the continued growth of the 'everyone gets a trophy' and 'me first' generation, has created an unholy synergy of:
-Warfighters who do not respect their leadership because their opinion is 'better'
-View of the military as a 9-5 with off-hours being your own
-A hollowed NCO core stripped of its authority due to over-extension of officers or burnout of decent mentors.
I don't know the fix. I'm learning new things every day. I'm observing those who have "got it right". The solution will not be formulaic, but it will be led by those who care. Finding them is urgent, and certainly not easy.
(1)
(0)
CPT (Join to see)
2d Lt (Join to see) - I have no issue with the functional change. I fully recognize that functional change needs to happen. However, the change must have a purpose. The uniform is an example of "change for the sake of change" that was given as an illustration, not so much a complaint.
My concern is that we are becoming so focused on the functional changes that we are losing the culture. I don't expect us to go back to standing collars or tricolored hats, but I do worry when that change overlooks the importance of the NCO in mission execution, Soldiers feeling that the military has abandoned them when they need it most, and the sense of entitlement where the core values of "selfless service" is lost.
v/r,
CPT Butler
My concern is that we are becoming so focused on the functional changes that we are losing the culture. I don't expect us to go back to standing collars or tricolored hats, but I do worry when that change overlooks the importance of the NCO in mission execution, Soldiers feeling that the military has abandoned them when they need it most, and the sense of entitlement where the core values of "selfless service" is lost.
v/r,
CPT Butler
(0)
(0)
2d Lt (Join to see)
CPT Jonathan Butler - Yes sir, my misinterpretation. I agree that "selfless service" is being lost, but I do view it as a reflection of culture, and not necessarily as a lack of heritage. I'd say its more a lack of warrior ethos in the average service member, brought about by our overwhelming desire to remove difficulties from the lives of our youth so they never have to dig deep into themselves to find success.
(1)
(0)
1
1
0
Yes things are changing. I would say that is a good thing because with out change you can not move forward time and keep up with other military stong holds. The world is constantly changing and yes they are not all for the good but sometimes we have to look at the bigger picture and see what the final outcome will be. I will agree that there are some issues with the changes and that some Soldiers dodge and hide from the changes and traditions but that has happened in all times even during the the World War. There will always be a percentage of Soldiers that want to fight change instead of seeing something positive in it an moving forward. So yes to me change is good it is a matter of how you implement it and then enforce it.
(1)
(0)
1
1
0
Older generations are always saying that the young generation is losing "it." Some of the changes you seem to think indicate a loss of our warrior culture are good updates. i.e. changing PTs; it's 2015, the technology available for workout clothes has been completely revolutionized since the last major change was made in 2003. The most important this is, have we kept our "fighting spirit" / "warrior mentality"? I think we have, look at the video of the female CPT finishing her EFMB road march NO MATTER WHAT, or intensity of the training being conducted at JRTC/NTC now. How much do some of these traditions really matter, and how many of them are real traditions? The Army didn't start wearing shoulder patches until WWI. We need to focus on what is really important and really matters for the future of our force and culture.
"No method of education, No system of promotion, No amount of common sense ability is of value unless the leader has in him the root of the matter - the fighting spirit"
Field Marshall Earl Worrell
"No method of education, No system of promotion, No amount of common sense ability is of value unless the leader has in him the root of the matter - the fighting spirit"
Field Marshall Earl Worrell
(1)
(0)
CPT (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) - First, I hope that my post does not sound as though I am disgruntled in any way. As a fighting force, every branch has proven its worth in the last decade+ of combat.
My concern lies in whether the rapid changes and turnover within the branches and forgetting the importance of tradition has had an impact on the overall wellbeing of a Soldier. Soldiers must be technically and tactically proficient...there is no question that they are. However, as leaders, we are responsible for their personal well-being and have a "duty to care". This is the area that I am thinking that we could certainly improve upon. There is a fairly serious problem with rape and sexual assault within the military, and suicide is rearing it's ugly head. Are these problems that can be fixed by holding off on making unnecessary changes to the uniform and instead taking a couple of years to "get back to basics"?
Yes, we all are warriors, but I wonder if a return to tradition, especially the learning/living of the various Soldier/NCO/WO/Officer's creeds and the pride in the symbols of the uniform and the history of the military could help foster that brotherhood/esprit de corps.
v/r,
CPT Butler
My concern lies in whether the rapid changes and turnover within the branches and forgetting the importance of tradition has had an impact on the overall wellbeing of a Soldier. Soldiers must be technically and tactically proficient...there is no question that they are. However, as leaders, we are responsible for their personal well-being and have a "duty to care". This is the area that I am thinking that we could certainly improve upon. There is a fairly serious problem with rape and sexual assault within the military, and suicide is rearing it's ugly head. Are these problems that can be fixed by holding off on making unnecessary changes to the uniform and instead taking a couple of years to "get back to basics"?
Yes, we all are warriors, but I wonder if a return to tradition, especially the learning/living of the various Soldier/NCO/WO/Officer's creeds and the pride in the symbols of the uniform and the history of the military could help foster that brotherhood/esprit de corps.
v/r,
CPT Butler
(1)
(0)
0
0
0
Just trying to keep the post short.
Example 1: Silver Dollar Salute. Although it's a fairly simple concept, I think it goes a long way towards winning the respect of the enlisted and NCOs. We are taught in BOLC/OBC that as officers, we are expected to set a leadership tone early and that we are responsible for the successes and failures of the unit elements that we command. The Silver Dollar Salute is a reminder that you haven't accomplished anything worthy of earning a salute yet, and that you must earn the respect of your troops constantly.
Example 2: Some units seem to be struggling with this, while others are not. I have seen some units where the NCO corps has been eroded away to essentially a shell of what they were intended to be. Instead, Officers overextend into the NCO lane and thus there is little responsibility or accountability among NCOs when the officers are not around. My current unit does not have this issue, and my 1SG and I have a working understanding that I may occasionally need reminders to back off and let them do their thing, only stepping in when asked to....as I was a platoon leader and learned my leadership from NCOs without much guidance early on from the officer's side of the house until recent years.
These are things that can possibly help rebuild the military, and hopefully it would be an opportunity to begin making my own little corner of the Army better. I'd like to hear from others' experiences...as I've been in a total now of 3 units, so I'm by no means the "well-traveled Soldier".
v/r,
CPT Butler
Example 1: Silver Dollar Salute. Although it's a fairly simple concept, I think it goes a long way towards winning the respect of the enlisted and NCOs. We are taught in BOLC/OBC that as officers, we are expected to set a leadership tone early and that we are responsible for the successes and failures of the unit elements that we command. The Silver Dollar Salute is a reminder that you haven't accomplished anything worthy of earning a salute yet, and that you must earn the respect of your troops constantly.
Example 2: Some units seem to be struggling with this, while others are not. I have seen some units where the NCO corps has been eroded away to essentially a shell of what they were intended to be. Instead, Officers overextend into the NCO lane and thus there is little responsibility or accountability among NCOs when the officers are not around. My current unit does not have this issue, and my 1SG and I have a working understanding that I may occasionally need reminders to back off and let them do their thing, only stepping in when asked to....as I was a platoon leader and learned my leadership from NCOs without much guidance early on from the officer's side of the house until recent years.
These are things that can possibly help rebuild the military, and hopefully it would be an opportunity to begin making my own little corner of the Army better. I'd like to hear from others' experiences...as I've been in a total now of 3 units, so I'm by no means the "well-traveled Soldier".
v/r,
CPT Butler
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google