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Should they change standards making WLC a requirement to become an NCO? I saw quite a few NCOs in WLC and was a little surprised by how they got put in a leadership position but not excelling in the class. Personally I think WLC should be a requirement because it's a professional development school and you need this course under your belt before your ready to take on subordinates. Your thoughts?
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 24
I don't believe so. I went to WLC as a SPC, and I found I knew more than the SGL. When it came to ALC and SLC I found that I already knew and had performed all the stuff they were there to teach me. From what I gathered from my peers in the classes I was not even close to the exception.
What's worse is, having had good and bad leaders in the military has also shown me what leadership looks like, and NO NCOES has ever taught it. What NCOES teaches is management, poor management at that. True leadership is not something that can be taught, though it CAN be learned through good leadership and mentoring, this depends more on the individual learning than the leader.
From what I gather after 11 years and counting, there is only one course that anyone can call a leadership course, I have not been through it, but it's Ranger School.
So no, again, as WLC stands right now, do not require it.
But if you FIX NCOES and make it more about decisions and experiences and subordinates and less about paperwork and covering your own behind, then sure, make it useful and required.
of course, I went to Ft. Lee for SLC in the "Ain't no FREE CHICKEN!" era, so maybe I have a sour taste still...
What's worse is, having had good and bad leaders in the military has also shown me what leadership looks like, and NO NCOES has ever taught it. What NCOES teaches is management, poor management at that. True leadership is not something that can be taught, though it CAN be learned through good leadership and mentoring, this depends more on the individual learning than the leader.
From what I gather after 11 years and counting, there is only one course that anyone can call a leadership course, I have not been through it, but it's Ranger School.
So no, again, as WLC stands right now, do not require it.
But if you FIX NCOES and make it more about decisions and experiences and subordinates and less about paperwork and covering your own behind, then sure, make it useful and required.
of course, I went to Ft. Lee for SLC in the "Ain't no FREE CHICKEN!" era, so maybe I have a sour taste still...
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see), what's "Ain't no free chicken?" The Google doesn't seem to know.
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SPC Thomas Smith
It seems one would effect the other. The soldiers get a good foundation and the school so their leadership can build them up. My WLC experience was that there is not a magic potion you drink upon graduation that makes you know the material. WLC is about about getting an understanding of why things are done a certain way. The soldier is still going to lean on their NCO leadership to learn the how to and how not to.
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It is going back to this, slowly but surely (that is WLC being a requirement for promotions). You will see a lot of E-5s and even some E-6s who where promoted without the completion of WLC. This requirement went away to help fulfill slots throughout the various Army components to support both OIF and OEF. With the draw down in Afghanistan, more and more standards that have been laxed or that went away will be returning.
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When I went through PLDC (2002) it was a requirement for promotion. First you had to be promotable to be added to OML, next your points, apft and weapons score ranked you on the OML. There were very few conditional promotions if you happened to reach your cutoff score prior to attending. PLDC challenged us. It was 30 days of lockdown and essentially basic training tactics while forcing us to use leadership skills that were taught. Land nav was not self correcting and if we failed were sent back to our units on the last couple of days. It should be requirement to pin E5 not to pin E6 like it is currently.
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SSG (Join to see)
Chief that is what's been missing we no longer rank soldier's and have them compete for spots to get into WLC. I wish we would go back to 30 days as well it's 22 days now and we still don't have enought time to teach and mentor then in leadership. Thanks Chief!
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Suspended Profile
I agree that WLC should be a prerequisite for promotion to Sergeant. I went as an NCO, and I did not learn much, but that was because my squad leader had trained me well. However, there were many in the class who were NCOs and did not do well. They did not know how to march soldiers, or conduct counselings, or know which AR or FM to reference for various topics. Most of what we covered at WLC seemed to be aimed at specialists who were ready for promotion. It makes sense to have a school that teaches the first level of leadership. It is done that way for officers and I believe it will be very beneficial to the Army's newest NCOs.
I was promoted without WLC in Iraq because they needed SGTs bad. Was I ready, yes because I had a great 1SG 1SG (Join to see) that had prepared me for being an NCO. I had already had time in my belt as a CPL.
In saying that, when I went to WLC with some other SGTs that were regular soup sandwiches. They had no business leading dogs on a walk, let alone troops. Even though I did not go to WLC before promotion I really feel like WLC should be required before promotion just because of the skills there will help people that had not been groomed to become NCOs.
In saying that, when I went to WLC with some other SGTs that were regular soup sandwiches. They had no business leading dogs on a walk, let alone troops. Even though I did not go to WLC before promotion I really feel like WLC should be required before promotion just because of the skills there will help people that had not been groomed to become NCOs.
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SSG (Join to see)
That's where the Army is moving with WLC so in the near future once you get done with AIT you will be automatically sign up for SSD 1 once complete you will go on the OML and then attend WLC before you can recieve your E-5. Now you know the Army and how long before this actually happens is yet to be ssen, SGT Howell thanks for responding.
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SGT William Howell
I think that is actually a good plan. I am sure it will get scraped before it makes it to the troops. It make too much sense.
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When I went to PLDC back in 2001, it was the standard for my Battalion for all SPC that wanted to be considered for the promotion board to SGT had to be placed on the OML and then attend PLDC prior to making SGT. Now in some instances depending on the wait list, a SPC may of gotten promoted prior to attending school because their cut off score was extremely low but for the most part, only senior SPC and SPC(P) went to PLDC. Now in 2005 when I was a PLDC Instructor, it was common for SGT's, SGT(P) and SSG's to be in my classes due to the war and NCO's not being available for training.
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SPC Nathan Freeman
It is a requirement now. People who have never been are now being forced to go to WLC or learn how to be a civilian. That's why you might see some NCOs at WLC. Also have to do SSD.
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I see both sides. A class does help the soldier learn but experience can do far more than schooling. A class doesn't make a leader, but a leader does need instruction. I can say that I didn't learn much from WLC because I did have some decent NCO's that gave a damn about structure and teaching. I had more experiences in formation, inspections, presentations, etc. The structure that a soldier came from and their MOS are just two of various variables that create a gap or difference in experience and professionalism among NCO's. Were they Active Duty? Reserves? Army or NG? Were they in long or are they a hot-shot quick promote with stellar packets?
Not everyone can do paper tests. Classroom instructions. Inspections and formations. But put them in their element within their MOS, you "should" see why they are an NCO.
Personally I have seen NCO's that took this course and they still are not ready to lead and it's based off the individual. They could be too cocky with their ego, the mentality of "I'm an NCO so I don't have to work and I can tell you what to do," etc. They need experience leading and to have a good mentor to guide them in their decision making.
Also, I think stating a reason to need this course by using its generic description is bad logic. Saying you WLC is needed because it's a professional development school is just repeating itself. What can someone gain from the course to make them ready to take on subordinates?
I know this is an old post but I do disagree with how it was stated or viewed. Love to hear your thoughts back!
Not everyone can do paper tests. Classroom instructions. Inspections and formations. But put them in their element within their MOS, you "should" see why they are an NCO.
Personally I have seen NCO's that took this course and they still are not ready to lead and it's based off the individual. They could be too cocky with their ego, the mentality of "I'm an NCO so I don't have to work and I can tell you what to do," etc. They need experience leading and to have a good mentor to guide them in their decision making.
Also, I think stating a reason to need this course by using its generic description is bad logic. Saying you WLC is needed because it's a professional development school is just repeating itself. What can someone gain from the course to make them ready to take on subordinates?
I know this is an old post but I do disagree with how it was stated or viewed. Love to hear your thoughts back!
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