Posted on Nov 4, 2013
SFC Josh Watson
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Female marine with rifle 2
I keep getting these surveys from the TRADOC Analysis Center wanting to know how I "feel" about Females joining combat arms positions, and jobs currently closed to them. Not so sure I believe the Army really cares how I "feel" about the topic and not sure it matters.

This has been an ongoing debate in a couple units I have been in and I'd like to hear something other than: "that's a ridiculous idea", "If they can hack it, let them" and "the sexual harassment/assault rate will go up". I'd like to hear from other branches and females as well. 

So, tell me, what's your take on it?

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Responses: 86
SFC Michael Hasbun
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It will take a  lot longer, if at all. You have to remember, the Marines are recruiting much higher quality candidates than we are, and their training is far more intensive. They are a smaller branch, so they can afford to do that. So the Average female Marine is going to generally be a superior specimen to your average female Soldier (sigh.. I know, here come the HEAT rounds). Will there be exceptions or deviations from the norms in both groups? Sure, but I am discussing averages.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
>1 y
Excuse me??? Haha just kidding. Your points about female Marines vs. female Soldiers are valid.&nbsp;<div>Then again female Marines are superior to a lot of male Soldiers too. They are some TOUGH sisters!&nbsp;</div>
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
>1 y
True enough... My ex and I are both former Marines, and I'm still pretty confident she can kick my ass =)
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SSG(P) Infantry Squad Leader
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I absolutely do not think women should be in the infantry the Army is already getting soft. It will happen, but what am I supposed to do other than brace for the incoming. 
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SFC Motor Transport Operator
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Lets just leave this subject, I mean it is what it is.
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SSG Robert Burns
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Oh no you didn't start this conversation all over!  You about to get some corrective training there young buck.
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CPT Public Affairs Officer
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I am notorious for my support for females in combat arms. 

However, I must say that there must be prescreen that needs to start ahead of shipping out from MEPS. 

The Marines just received a lot of notoriety and publicity for having 3 females graduate their School of Infantry (not MCT). A fourth one was medically rolled back a class. There were approximately 20 females started with this course. That is a 80% failure rate! 

We just can not afford for only 20% to pass. From a personnel and budgetary POV, that would be unacceptable. 

I am not trying to advocate against females in Infantry or Combat Arms. I just think that we need to ensure a greater than 20% pass rate. This is NOT by lowering the standards, but finding qualified candidates....not just those who want to pioneer a new way ahead for females. Frankly, I do not see room for crusaders, but plenty of room for those who want to work and have the fire to meet the standards and work to become great leaders. 
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SSG S3 Operations Nco
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My take on this position is simple. Every person deserves a
chance to succeed. If a female truly believes that she can endure the hardships
that come with the infantry MOS then by all means go for it. I too have heard
the "feelings" of other men and women who have no valid reasoning or
studies on whether women can stand to the challenge of infantry person instead
they piggy back off of an insane comment from someone else. Each time I hear
these comments I simply revisit the discussion on homosexual in the military.
These same statements were made before the destruction of DADT. People need to
open their eyes and learn to accept that there is no such thing as a "man’s
job", females around the military know that they must work harder and
longer just to get the minimum respect as any male Soldier would get. If you as
a Soldier cannot control yourself around the opposite sex in a work environment
then maybe you should seek other employment in a male oriented field outside of
the military.....oh wait there aren’t any.



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Cpl Ray Fernandez
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I think we can look at how women in line combat units have worked for other countries to see what will work. I don't think that we should reduce standards to force equality, but we can look at countries like Israel to form a basis of how we should integrate women into combat roles, they don't have the luxury of giving people the option of not serving in the military but their decades of experience can be useful to us. The writing is already on the wall and regardless of how anyone feels about it, it is going to happen (we already have women on combat ships, women fighter pilots, and our recent experiences have shown us that no units are immune to combat). What we do need to do is make sure that we do bring women in ways that make sense and do not reduce effectiveness. With respect to my personal feelings I've never cared about he gender, orientation, religion or any other intangible of the people I served with, all I cared was that the people I served with were willing and capable of carrying out the mission (can't really say much about a combat role as my MOS was ground radio repair, and I served between wars). People make a big deal about addressing social issues through the military but there is a good chance that we can look and learn from the experiences of other countries in addressing those issues without having to reinvent the wheel and think it is something drastic and new.
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SFC Josh Watson
SFC Josh Watson
>1 y
Thats a good point.  But looking at other nations' militaries, do you think we can compare our female Soldiers to theirs?  Don't you think there are some cultural differences or possibly societal differences that could determine the successes or failures of this model?
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SPC Alexander Witmer
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It comes down to how their bodies are built, pure and simple. Speaking from an infantryman's perspective, your body gets destroyed quickly doing combat operations- carrying large amounts of weight over long distances.

The Army has done studies on this, and combat load operations destroy a woman's musculoskeletal system much quicker than a man's. This isn't sexist, it's biology. Angle and spread of hips, arch of the back, different pelvic structures, and lower bone density and iron content all are contributors. This is one of the most positive research papers on it, and it's still brutal.

https://jmvh.org/article/load-carriage-and-the-female-soldier/

Lest we all forget, the Army is not about inclusiveness, it's about efficiency. If you have the choice between a tool that generally breaks after 1 use, or one that generally breaks after 4 or 5, which is more economical to use until it's broken?
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MAJ Ken Landgren
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I say we should come up with minimum physical standards for each combat branch and test the females. There is no point in designated them Infantry if they can't carry 70 lbs. of gear on a march. If females can't load 50 lbs. Tank Heat rounds every 6-8 seconds then they become a liability.
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MAJ Alvin B.
MAJ Alvin B.
>1 y
Yes. Evaluate the requirements. Set the standards and then test against those standards. Anyone meeting the standard should be allowed to serve. Gender should not be part of the equation. As a gentle reminder, there was a time when it was said women could not fly (remember the WASPS), or compete and be successful at the service academies. The world has changed, and this is the long overdue new reality.
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MAJ Ken Landgren
MAJ Ken Landgren
4 y
MAJ Alvin B. - Yes standards must be met.
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SSG Platoon/Supply Sergeant
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They would be as effective as their training. If not, chapter them out the same as you'd chapter any other Gender/MOS for failure to perform
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