Posted on Sep 13, 2016
Would an E9 comply if ordered to attention by an O1?
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In my 8 yr career in the Army as a 13M20....I never saw a butter bar ever lock up a CSM. In the Artillery. That butter bar would have smoked like a bad Korean cigarette.
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I think this falls under "just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD do it."
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To maintain proper decorum, yes, the E9 should. A private conversation with the O1 and his superior officer would be called for afterward, though.
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These comments remind me of when I was an E-3 stationed at Fort Meade. Due to NSA being there, every summer saw a dozen or so Air Force Academy cadets passing through. Just before they would come in we'd get a briefing to remind us to treat them with respect but that they are not officers and so they don't requiring saluting or being called sir and such.
A was walking back to my dorm, think I was coming home from work, and say good afternoon to one and kept walking. Next thing I hear is him shouting "Airman! Turn around and come over here, now!" I walk back and ask if needed any help. "First off, give me your reporting statement. Second, you rush over when you're called, not stroll over. Third, I'm an officer and you better salute me when you see me!" I tried explaining to him that he is not an officer and not entitled to a salute. As he's yelling at me I see my CO walking up and prepare to salute him. He waves me off and gets behind this cadet and just stands there and listens for a moment. The cadet tells me to get to attention and render him his salute and that's when my CO nodded to me and I saluted my CO. He returns the salute and I drop mine and the Vader goes ballistic now. "How dare you lower your salute. You keep your hand up until I tell you to put it down. Now you but your arm back up and keep it there!" "Actually, I think he was saluting me." The cadet spins around, "how dare you interrupt me, who do you.....", relizes he's now yelling at an O-5, snaps to attention and renders his salute. My CO dismisses me and starts in on the cadet and isn't returning the salute making the cadet hold his arm up.
My CO at the time was a former Navy enlisted man that instead of taking Chief decided to switch to Air Force and become an officer. At the time he'd been in service for a total of 35 years and was getting ready to retire. Had more ribbons and medals then could fit on his dress uniform. He was the kind of CO that anyone would want, over 500 people in the unit and he knew everyone's name and something about them outside of work. He was't keen on Academy students, especially the ones with superiority complexes.
A was walking back to my dorm, think I was coming home from work, and say good afternoon to one and kept walking. Next thing I hear is him shouting "Airman! Turn around and come over here, now!" I walk back and ask if needed any help. "First off, give me your reporting statement. Second, you rush over when you're called, not stroll over. Third, I'm an officer and you better salute me when you see me!" I tried explaining to him that he is not an officer and not entitled to a salute. As he's yelling at me I see my CO walking up and prepare to salute him. He waves me off and gets behind this cadet and just stands there and listens for a moment. The cadet tells me to get to attention and render him his salute and that's when my CO nodded to me and I saluted my CO. He returns the salute and I drop mine and the Vader goes ballistic now. "How dare you lower your salute. You keep your hand up until I tell you to put it down. Now you but your arm back up and keep it there!" "Actually, I think he was saluting me." The cadet spins around, "how dare you interrupt me, who do you.....", relizes he's now yelling at an O-5, snaps to attention and renders his salute. My CO dismisses me and starts in on the cadet and isn't returning the salute making the cadet hold his arm up.
My CO at the time was a former Navy enlisted man that instead of taking Chief decided to switch to Air Force and become an officer. At the time he'd been in service for a total of 35 years and was getting ready to retire. Had more ribbons and medals then could fit on his dress uniform. He was the kind of CO that anyone would want, over 500 people in the unit and he knew everyone's name and something about them outside of work. He was't keen on Academy students, especially the ones with superiority complexes.
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I've seen this happen with a 2LT trying to lock up the theater Sergeant Major in Iraq. I was blown away, but of course this LT was not exactly known for his brilliance. It didn't end well for the 2LT....
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Once, I aggressively informed a new Lt. That his place was to watch, learn, go to meetings and distribute information. Training is my arena not his. Needless to say I operated for 10 years as a platoon Sergeant and did well.
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Don't think this is exactly in line, but when we got a new 2LT in our unit in Korea, after a few weeks of orientation he was finally in out in our work area. He made it clear that he was a new LT and that he expected our SFC to mentor him, and he wanted us privates to teach him. That attitude from a new LT immediately got my respect.
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I had a new butter bar lock me up ONCE. Then we went and played pushball. He never did it again
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This type of conversation always amuses me. Honestly there isn't really a time when this should happen but sometimes people have chips on their shoulders or just haven't been trained yet. There is a formal rank structure and then there is common sense. Even a junior, yeah I said junior, E9 usually has about or over 20yrs in service and has earned the respect of those around him/her. If there is ever a situation when an LT feels the need to push this issue I am sure it will be handled professionally and the young leader would get mentored and counseled by their senior officers before the CSM. Again, I have my own opinion on this topic and don't want this post to turn into a FB type string on nonsense. I personally have never had an issue with any officer when conducting my duties as a CSM. Respect goes both ways and they usually know what level you are working and show the respect accordingly.
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Well the SGM would do it, but Lord have mercy on that Lt when the SGM pulls him into see the Bn Cdr. And that Lt would not be well accepted or appreciated by his peers or senior Officers. He has pretty much ended his chances in that Bn and especially at Company level
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