Posted on Sep 13, 2016
Would an E9 comply if ordered to attention by an O1?
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I've seen this happen personally...the CSM was absolutely professional and complied then later in the day the Battalion Commander fully informed the young Lieutenant on the true food chain of the Army.
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I have to agree I would like to be a fly on the wall behind the closed door meeting.
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Yes, the Senior NCO would comply, IAW rules & regulations, not to mention NCO professional decorum.
But, the young lieutenant's military career would hit a wall!!
But, the young lieutenant's military career would hit a wall!!
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Of course he would. But that butter bar needs to be looking over his shoulder. One of the worst chewings I ever had was by my company First Sergeant when I was the company XO. He did it without raising his voice and with total respect. If young officers don't appreciate the wisdom of senior NCOs, their careers will be woefully short.
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technically yes for the E9 is outranked by the young lt - it sucks but that's our military. I disagree with the fact that a 50 year old E9 who has 25 years in the military has to salute and take orders from a 19 or 20 year old 2nd LT who has been in the army 1 year if that. That's our military though. They have no experience, yes one day they will and I feel that the young officers should respect the SR NCOs enough in such a way as to not put them in such a position - it's not right at all.
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1 MEF Ball 07. I'm in the Band and we had just finished setting up, so I walked outside for a smoke before a 2 hour jazz combo set. Saw a SGTMAJ helping his wife out the car as a 1LT went by. SGTMAJ sees him and acknowledges him. Officer gets huffy and says " SGTMAJ I didn't catch that salute." The SGTMAJ stops, looks at him and says: "Climb up my chevrons and get it. " I laughed and got yelled at by both. Great night .
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We had a weak platoon leader bring our Div CSM into our training area and I yelled out "At East!!" The CSM walked up to me, shook my hand and smiled. The 2LT said to me; "for your information SGT, a 2LT out ranks a CSM." I responded with; "well sir, once you are SF, Master Blaster, CIB and silver star owner, I will show you that same respect." He just looked at me with that "deer in the headlight" look and walked off.
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Diamonds are trump 1SG, and there are only 2 soldiers in the Army that wear stars..Generals and Sergeant Majors.
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Sure just because he is an officer. But I'm sure most 01 would have enough respect for E9 to not
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Short answer Yes. But the Lt./ENS has a lesson to learn when he does. Its not going to be pretty.
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Officers are considered higher ranking than enlisted. No matter the officers rank.
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I remember an old Chief of mine, who looked at the young Ensign and said to him "You know Ensign, and I'm going to call you Ensign, when I was a boy....about your age...I was taught to respect my elders..so I'm going to call you Ensign, and you can call me Sir!"
As for my own interactions, well I played rugby for some military sides and for a well known local civilian club, and I remember coming off the pitch after a match with my Division Officer/LT saying to me "Good match Chief, please remind me to never, ever piss you off!"
As for my own interactions, well I played rugby for some military sides and for a well known local civilian club, and I remember coming off the pitch after a match with my Division Officer/LT saying to me "Good match Chief, please remind me to never, ever piss you off!"
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A good E-9 would comply but take it offline to resolve because someone who has reached E-9 has done it using common sense, finesse and great leadership. For that matter, I am eternally grateful to the SNCO who saw potential in me and became an advocate to refining my leadership instead of a adversarial hindrance. His years of experience became a stepping stone to who I am as a Lt Col and I will forever be grateful to his gruff, honest assessments. I am also grateful to the NCOs that became team players even when I stumbled because they knew I still had their backs. I have worked with some amazing NCOs.
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My Dad was Navy. He regaled me once with a tale of a Lieutenant J.G who took it upon himself to dress down a Senior Chief for some percoeved infraction. Infront of junior enlisted like my Dad no less. In the midst of this, the XO who had known and served alongside said chief since antiquity likely predating the LTJG's conception. The XO leaned against a bulkhead and watched silently while the young officer continued his tirade, the Chief dutifully at attention. When the younger officer finished, still oblivious to the Commander's presence in the room, the XO spoke up finally, not to the LTJG, but to the Senior, their exchange somewhere along the lines of, "Hey Frank." "Hey Bill." The XO then told the LTJG to step out with him, not wanting to repeat the impropriety the younger officer had just committed by berating a subordinate in front of lower enlisted men. But when the Liuentenant sullenly shuffled across the flight deck to the next supply helicopter, kicked off the ship and bound for parts unknown (it was presumed Antartica), no one wondered why. The Senior Chief never lost his cool because he never had to. He didn't need the respect of the LTJG because he had the respect of someone who actually mattered.
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The CSM would comply. that is protocol. I am sure that LT would never again make that mistake. I never seen it happen. But I know as a 1SG, I would come to attention but shortly afterward, the demons of hell would be loose in the closed door office of the commander
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