Posted on Sep 13, 2016
Would an E9 comply if ordered to attention by an O1?
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I had a similar thing happen to me but it was a cadet trying to get me to go to attention and salute her while in airborne school and in the training area no less oh and I had already received my wings while she was still waiting to start training don't know if the story warrants further mentioning as this question is in reference to O-1's calling out E-9's.
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In the late 70's I saw a CPT tell the division CSM to come to attention as the CSM was chewing on his 1SG after having the MP's called to their company Christmas party three times. It didn't end well for the CPT.
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The O-1 is still an officer, so the E-9 would be compelled to obey his order. One thing I learned in the Navy is that you respect and salute the uniform, not necessarily the person wearing said uniform. Were junior enlisted to see the E-9 disregarding the O-1's order(s), a bad example would be set. Were this not to happen in front of other military members, a different outcome would most likely occur, but the O-1 is still an officer and the E-9 is still enlisted, so respect should still be rendered to the uniform, if nothing else.
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That would be career suicide for the O-1, and would be commented on in his fitness report with great prejudice. However, I have always advised newly commissioned and junior officers that they are in charge and ultimately responsible. More than one officer has had his career ruined by not holding senior enlisted, including the E-9s, accountable, and when something goes wrong on your watch because of a drunk, an abusive individual, a dishonest or thieving individual, or a sexual harasser, make no mistake about it, the CO is going to hang you too. Do not be afraid to pull senior enlisted aside and give them clear expectations when you see something going on that you know isn't right. And do not EVER neglect your responsibility to document an individual's shortcomings in a performance evaluation.
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I was a Corpsman (E3). One night working in the Medical Surgical ward, I had a patient began to come, VT. So I yelled to my nurse to call the code and I would rush the crash cart to the Bed Side. Of course LTJG bla Bla got upset and tried to put me in my place also claiming my patient was DNR. I repeatedly told him he was in fact NOT A DNR (do not resuscitate) so I told him to check his nursing notes and meet me at the bedside when he is ready to save his patients life. Needless to say he almost got sent to the record department for not responding correctly. Point being watch each other's backs both enlisted and officer alike. Yes we answer to officers but we have so much to offer as enlisted.
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In front of the troops, yes. He has to set the example.
But the instant it's no longer in front of junior enlisteds and VERY junior NCOs, poor butter bar's going to get his shinies all corroded by the language he's gonna hear...and if he goes running to the railroad tracks or bird...well, when he's done blushing over being laughed out of the CO's office, he'll have got the point.
But the instant it's no longer in front of junior enlisteds and VERY junior NCOs, poor butter bar's going to get his shinies all corroded by the language he's gonna hear...and if he goes running to the railroad tracks or bird...well, when he's done blushing over being laughed out of the CO's office, he'll have got the point.
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SGT Corey Gray
SP5? WTF happened to my buckies!?
I might not have made it FAR in one tour, but I was proud of my buckies!
I might not have made it FAR in one tour, but I was proud of my buckies!
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I've seen this happen personally...the CSM was absolutely professional and complied then later in the day the Battalion Commander fully informed the young Lieutenant on the true food chain of the Army.
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I have to agree I would like to be a fly on the wall behind the closed door meeting.
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Yes, the Senior NCO would comply, IAW rules & regulations, not to mention NCO professional decorum.
But, the young lieutenant's military career would hit a wall!!
But, the young lieutenant's military career would hit a wall!!
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Of course he would. But that butter bar needs to be looking over his shoulder. One of the worst chewings I ever had was by my company First Sergeant when I was the company XO. He did it without raising his voice and with total respect. If young officers don't appreciate the wisdom of senior NCOs, their careers will be woefully short.
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technically yes for the E9 is outranked by the young lt - it sucks but that's our military. I disagree with the fact that a 50 year old E9 who has 25 years in the military has to salute and take orders from a 19 or 20 year old 2nd LT who has been in the army 1 year if that. That's our military though. They have no experience, yes one day they will and I feel that the young officers should respect the SR NCOs enough in such a way as to not put them in such a position - it's not right at all.
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1 MEF Ball 07. I'm in the Band and we had just finished setting up, so I walked outside for a smoke before a 2 hour jazz combo set. Saw a SGTMAJ helping his wife out the car as a 1LT went by. SGTMAJ sees him and acknowledges him. Officer gets huffy and says " SGTMAJ I didn't catch that salute." The SGTMAJ stops, looks at him and says: "Climb up my chevrons and get it. " I laughed and got yelled at by both. Great night .
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We had a weak platoon leader bring our Div CSM into our training area and I yelled out "At East!!" The CSM walked up to me, shook my hand and smiled. The 2LT said to me; "for your information SGT, a 2LT out ranks a CSM." I responded with; "well sir, once you are SF, Master Blaster, CIB and silver star owner, I will show you that same respect." He just looked at me with that "deer in the headlight" look and walked off.
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Diamonds are trump 1SG, and there are only 2 soldiers in the Army that wear stars..Generals and Sergeant Majors.
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