Posted on Sep 13, 2016
LTJG Ansi Officer
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If a fresh 2LT/ENS ordered an E9 to attention because of a disagreement, would the E9 have to comply? What would possibly happen?
Posted in these groups: Army2lt 2LTSgm SGMArmy usa or 09b.svg CSM
Edited 9 y ago
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TSgt Aircraft Electrical and Environmental Systems
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Hew better comply, for all kinds of reasons -- appearance, UCMJ, all kinds. But afterwards, there would likely be some fallout.

In 1977, I was a brand new Marine PFC going to tech school at NAS Memphis. One day, while walking down the sidewalk, I heard what sounded almost like a dogfight on the sidewalk across the street. When I looked over there, here was this Master Chief about 6' 6" tall, with an Ensign perhaps 5' 8" tall, yelling up at him. I mean, it looked almost like Odie going after Garfield. After a minute, the Master Chief stopped walking, looked down at this Ensign, and just BLASTED him. "WOULD YOU JUST SHUT THE F*** UP!!!" I guess they didn't see me over on the other sidewalk staring at them with my mouth open! :-) When the Master Chief noticed me, it was MY turn -- "AND WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT?"

I've never forgotten that incident. Embarrassed for the both of them, my own embarrassment at seeing them, wondering if that Ensign woke up or went to the civilian world in a couple of years, etc.
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AN Aviation Ordnanceman
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I witnessed a master Chief tell an a butter bar to climb up fid gold anchor and kiss his two silver stars.
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SCPO Jeffrey Curran
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First I would stand up and face this young ensign and address the issue head on. This did happy me a few times in my career and understand one thing I showed the young officer the difference between earned respect and demanded respect all in one sentence and in front of his/her subordinates. And as with the article above I was called in front of the XO and CMC but, as the Doc on board who due you think took the hit? Wasn't me. All I was told was try and play nice because we need our young officers to want to stay in. So moral of the story don't surrender to young impulsive officers who think after two years in the Military they know more then a 24-30 Veteran.
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SN Master-at-Arms
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B7a21345
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SFC Cannon Crew Member
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Sgt John Bynum
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RHIP
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Sgt John Bynum
Sgt John Bynum
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of course in the Corps, an 01 is more respectful of his senior NCOs. Respect for the uniform and respect for rank!
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LCpl Dan McTiernan
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As a relatively boot Marine an Officer (O1) ordered us to secure and lock up crypto equipment at the reboot (1969). The Officer got upset with me when I walked to the back of the open cabinet and make the crypto update and he insisted that I open the door, turn the crypto make the update, turn the crypto gear around and secure the door. Keep in mind that there was a large door on a 4 or 5 shelf cabinet with no sides. No sides and he wanted me to only go through the door? Cabinet sitting in the middle of the room next to the teletype machine! What! I had more than a few choice words, yes I was smart enough this time to keep my comments under my breath. An E7 coached me later to salute the rank not the person. Stupidity has no limits. I apply the same to POTUS.
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Sgt Robin Weaver
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No
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SGM M Crisp
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As a Sergeants Major Drop the mic, enough said...
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LT Carlos Barata
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My father was an Senor Chief in the Navy (E-8) when I graduated from the US Naval Academy (25 years ago, yikes), and while he is a man of few words, he made sure to "educate" me on the proper way to interact with all the enlisted I'd work with, but very much what I should and better yet, should not do, as a newly minted Ensign. Basically he said, none will ever publicly make me look bad, even when I'm an ass, but if I listened, treated them with respect, and understood that I still had a lot to learn, an effective relationship with my senior NCOs would be incredibly career enhancing. He was right! At least this Ensign made sure I kept my mouth shut, ears open and learned the dazzling pearls of wisdom the senior NCOs I got to work with handed out. Their advice serves me, even today.
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COL Bill McFarland
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Edited 9 y ago
The premise here is nonsense. These senior NCOs work directly for senior officers and under the cover of those officers' authority. I know of no organization where an E-8 or above reports to an O-1. Everyone must understand their place in the organization. As a 2LT, I treated these senior NCOs with a great deal of respect and genuinely deferred to their experience. I think their assistance and insights were key. I also cannot remember ever seeing a senior NCO not beating any company grade officers to a salute or other formal sign of respect. I think they had a sixth sense or radar for avoiding the issue so they could focus on the job at hand. Lastly, I remember junior NCOs in places like PX parking lots with arms full and toddlers who would make a nod or other reasonable effort. Common sense, folks, right?
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1SG Charles Simpson
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By the book, the E9 is required to obey the orders of commissioned officers but I believe the circumstances at the time would dictate whether it should be expected that the E9 would obey. I probably would not comply because I would be laughing too hard.
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SGT Bill DuRose
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I would want believe the 01 would have more respect than to do something so foolish.
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Sgt Frank Sleeper
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Oh hell with E9. I had a Butterbar "attempt" to humiliate me (Sgt USMC) at the time near a formation for complete BS. A quick trip by the "Top" (Master Guns) and the little puppy learned appropriate respect for his troops and especially NCOs who are keeping his dumb ass slice and training him
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SPC Erik Frame
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I've seen this before with a MSG with Delta Force under his belt. Both had a disagreement with the string order on a airborne jump. After the bickering the MSG finally said," Sir, I've got more confirmed kills than you got college credits, so we are doing this my way!"
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SPC Rodger Johnson
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Edited 9 y ago
If he were as professional as all I ever knew in my 11 years in both National Guard and active he would politely comply while smirking the whole time and then when meeting with the battalion commander for their usual afternoon drink the Lts name would be mentioned and the boys CO would get a call and the next time that college boy saw CSM he would just nod and wish the Sergeant Major a good day then carry on about his business.
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PO2 Eric Vorlage
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Yes.we are taught to respect the rank...not the man (or woman).
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SrA Command & Control Battle Management Ops
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Age or rank should not be the sole determining factor whether or not you address another service member as sir. I may just be a lowly little Senior Airmen in the Air Force, but I address everyone either by sir or their name and rank. Obviously because most people out rank me, but I even render the same courtesies to the airmen below me. All the same with standing for anyone who talks to me. It's about professionalism.
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CPO Dempsey Faulkner
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The O1 would not be happy or have a ass to sit on
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LT James Fox
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Edited 9 y ago
When I was an E5, I was on a ship and we were going through OPPE (Operational Propulsion Plant Examination) where they test the engineering plant on the ship. While on watch during the examination we had an issue and the ship went in the dark. I was controlling the speed of the ship and our engineering officer of the watch (EOOW) was a Master Chief (E9). After we got the ship back up answering bells the head of the inspection team came up and chewed out the EOOW for not following proper protocol and giving directions to the watch standers. We all knew our jobs and worked like a well oil machine. He stood there facing this officer, who was a Captain, full bird, O6, clenched his fists at his side and said, "With all due respect sir, get the hell out of my space." The Captain left. A little while later the Captain came down and apologized to the Master Chief in front of everyone. He was a great E9 and someone I looked up to with great respect. When I received my commission I never ever talked to any E7 and above without due respect nor did I embarrass them in front of others by talking down to them or making them stand at attention. I guess with 17 yrs enlisted experience you understand that sort of thing. LOL
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PO1 Greg Allen
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I was an E-6 in the Navy. Never have I failed to salute any officer. Never have I witnessed any NCO failing to salute. It's a military courtesy that should be honored. I realize that a green officer knows less than an NCO. The salaute should still be rendered. A good officer will not go out of the his way to belittle those under him. A good officer will consult with his NCO's and respect their opinions.
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Cpl William Bumbalough
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While deployed with my battalion (5th Marines) a butter bar called our battalion SgtMg by his first name while in the chow hall in Camp Fallujah.

This is the real reason you cannot have your phones while on deployment.

"THE FUCK DID YOU JUST SAY?!"
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SGT Dan Miller
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He would comply in front of other Soldiers but there would most definitely be a private discussion between them later.
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SGT Michael Brooks
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The E9 would comply
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PO1 Joseph Hale
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Yes but the jg had better be ready for the result unless he is a mustang then it wouldn't happen it would be done in a nonpublic manner
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PFC Infantryman
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If he is a classy disciplined POG yes, call a e9 to attending as a grunt, he will laugh seen it done
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SP5 Ford Ross
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Yes. The subject is closed! HUA!
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SSgt John Rosenthal
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I was in the US Army and the Air Force from 77-90
I never once saw an E-9 be disrespectful to any officer. Maybe because they know that every enlisted soldier and airmen that sees them looks to them for guidance. And they know they set the example for all to see!!!!
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TSgt William Paez
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SSG Michael Robertson
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If that young Lt had a good OBC instructor, and respected the NCO corps, it would never happen. AS a basic course instructor myself, this almost seems like an unrealistic scenario, but the professional would comply, but that would definitely not be the end of that encounter. Lol
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SFC Special Forces Assistant Operations & Intelligence Sergeant
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I respect the O's, but I don't know any E7s that would let an O1 do that, let alone an E9.
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LTC Military Police
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In my experience, they wouldn't destroy the LT in public, but there's usually a follow up meeting with the BN or BDE Commander. A very, very, close and intimate meeting that can be described as "life changing." Rarely would the SGM openly rebuke an officer, only when necessity and common sense required.
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SSG Roger Hampton
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I remember this actually happening in an MI unit I was assigned too in the 90s though I think it was O1 and 1SG. The 1SG was soon after it happened, the Bn staff SGM so it could have been after he made E9. Needless to say this O1 not only had a very rapid meeting with out Bn CDR but she also soon relieved of her duties (was S1 LT) and reassigned (or given the boot who knows).
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SGT Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
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Yeah technically, but this is not an all or nothing scenerio....very much a grey area. One the audacity of the LT would dictate where it goes, and more importantly the patience of the E9.
Remember the E9 has made his career and doesnt need promted, but that LT has stiff road to Maj and beyond. The politics of him getting there with behaivor like that could mean a very rough, difficult road with no future
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LTC Wes Rogers
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Yes he would have to respond! Many (not all) E9's resent officers period. I had enlisted time (SGT) and Commissioned time. Taught HS JROTC. And many E9's in system had problems still working with Officers. Wish I knew why. Hope I just worked with egotistical Non Com's.
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SPC Jackson Stevens
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The way it was explained to me.
O1- never heard of god.
O2- has heard rumors that there is a god.
O3 - confirmed sightings of god.
O4 - brief encounters with god.
O5 - regular encounters with god.
O6 & above - communes with god.
E8 & above - god!
A good Senior NCO usually has the ability to take that "problem" out of the "public" location. Any intelligent 0-1 knows that the Senior NCO spends a lot more time (has the ear of) with the O-1's boss's boss's boss!
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PO3 Rich Brozowski
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Had the a almost same experience as an E-3. On quarterdeck watch on Enterprise the Stennis was pier side. We carried 12 gauges for watch. The Stennis carried 9 mil. Our captains orders were not to salute anybody on watch just come to attention. Well... had a O-1 from the Stennis come across the brow. Popped to attention and said good morning sir. Which he replied shipmate where is my salute? I said Sir i do not salute when carrying this weapon per my co's orders...Sat there for a good 5 minutes demanding his salute. Never gave him one. Well the gunnery division warrant 4, 32 years in the navy btw...came by and heard what was going on an dragged that O-1 through the quarterdeck to the hangar bay and went up one side and down the other on this kid. I couldn't help it was laughing my ass off... The CO came aboard saw me smirking and heard the warrant screaming in the hangar bay... I told him what happened and the CO joined the warrant and about 5 minutes later that O-1 hauled ass across the brow no salute nothing. I just popped to attention and said sir....
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PO3 Noah Dawicki
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E9 has earned their position with a LOT of time put in. A lt is what 3-5 years? Come on
Seniority rules. That's so disrespectful. Wouldn't have flown on my ship I'll tell ya that.
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SGT Motor Transport Operator
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So back when I was a PVT, we had a new O1 arrive 30 minutes late to the BN. No one paid her any mind, as she was just a butter bar and all the BN/CO officers had arrived for the day.
So she flips out on the junior troops hanging around the staff duty desk. "Who's in charge here? Why didn't anyone call the bldg to attention when I walked in? I'm an officer!"
The outgoing staff duty runner, E4, acknowledged that he had just got off duty at work call, so she dropped him and started to berate him loudly for not calling her "ma'am" or standing at attention.
We all did a quick vanishing act, listening around the corners, and someone ran for the guy's NCO.
So SGT comes down to ask her, "What's going on here?"
She orders SGT to attention and goes off on him. He tells his troop to get out of there, troop doesn't need asking twice.
The commotion draws BN CSM'a attention. "What's going on here?"
This little short female LT faces off to our CSM (whose personal motto was "Strike Fear") and informs him that HIS BN is ate-up and lacking discipline and oh btw HE should stand at attention and call her "ma'am", because "technically, I outrank you!"
I've never seen CSM turn so red in my life... then he took a deliberate deep breathe and his face went back to normal, and he said, calmly, "Technically, you are correct, ma'am. But why don't we take this conversation to the BC's office just down the hall?"
BC was retiring. Gentle teddy bear of a man, anyone could walk in and ask, "So how 'bout them Yankees?" And be invited in eagerly, "Come in, come in, how's everything going?" Never saw him get mad before.

We. Could. Hear. Him. From. The. End. Of. The. Bldg!
Which is how I know that LT was BORN the year CSM enlisted!! LMAO!
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SPC Johnathan Jarrett
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Stationed in Alaska from '94-'97 as part of 4/9, 6th ID. I was working in the "S" shop for a while. One day, our CSM was trying to explain something, I honestly don't know what as up to this point it was a quiet conversation. The butterbar started screaming at the CSM that he had better get to the position of attention if he was going to speak to an officer. At this point, the entire building stopped breathing, and waited to see what our CSM was going to do. He snapped to attention, begged pardon from the butterbar, and just stood there looking at the wall behind this kid. When the O1 was done with his tirade, he had this smirk on his face and went about his business. Meanwhile, our CSM marched up to the Battalion Commanders office, and shut the door. 2 minutes later, we hear "He F***ing did what!?!?!? Get Lt. Cantrememberhisname in my office NOW!"

When the O1 entered his office, we all heard "Get into the position of attention! Sargent Major, please close the door." Thunk went the door. However, for the next 2ish plus hours, we heard yelling, and what I would have sworn was a first rate smoking session. As far as I know, that O1 never ever tried to do something like that again...
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