Posted on Sep 13, 2016
LTJG Ansi Officer
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If a fresh 2LT/ENS ordered an E9 to attention because of a disagreement, would the E9 have to comply? What would possibly happen?
Posted in these groups: Army2lt 2LTSgm SGMArmy usa or 09b.svg CSM
Edited 9 y ago
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SSG Mike Simpson
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Everything depends on the situation, BUT that being said, if the 2nd Lt./Ensign was issuing a legal order. yes, the E-9 would have to comply, otherwise good military order and discipline goes right out the window. Now what would happen to that young officer is probably this: he would be counseled by a higher ranking office within his chain of command or department. Back in the old days, the E-9 would have a "chat" with some of the NCO's within that officer's unit who would "mysteriously" stop being so helpful to that young officer. Once he falls on his face a time or two, he might learn that you don't spit into the wind; you don't tug on Superman's cape; and you don't mess around with E-9's.
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Cpl Christopher Bishop
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I heard a story once....maybe some of you have heard it....maybe its factual, or maybe its one of those Old Wives' Tales, but I'll share it anyway:

At Quantico, VA, where among other things lies both the USMC Officers' Candidate School, AND the Marine Security Guard Battalion/School (read Embassy School) ... A freshly graduated 2LT was walking in opposite direction of the MSG SgtMaj during a lunch break (back to their work areas towards the end of their lunch times). The 2LT called out the SgtMaj for not rendering a salute.

(You can already see where this is going)

The E9 had another younger Marine walking behind him a bit...asked him to come with him as he needed a witness...and walked this young 2LT and the (E5 i think) to the HQ of the OCS, and demanded to see the BnCO, BnXO, and BnSgtmaj in the lobby. They all came down within about 5-10 minutes. The MSG-E9 tore into all of them, very sternly yet borderline respectfully...and said "I don't know what on God's Green Earth you are teaching these young Officers around here...but you don't get to be the SgtMaj of anything to do with Embassy units without being a bit heavy on the decorations, and as the rest of you can see, I happen to be wearing the MoH amongst my awards...and its been years that I've "had" to salute anybody, although I generally will return one out of respect...and now you people got me wondering just what in the hell else I have to do to earn some of my own damn respect around here...and I'm quite certain that both Enlisted and Officer training programs discuss what the MoH looks like and that it is supposed to be saluted even if its worn by a PFC..." Supposedly the young 2LT got recycled on the spot and had to redo his entire OCS, and some of their instructors were chewed out by the BnCO there.

I personally heard this from the specific E4-E5 "witness" himself (I know he made E5 at some point, I'm just not sure if he was a Corporal at the time). My guy tells me he wasn't exaggerating one bit. And I've been through the same MSG school myself...and I will tell you that nearly all of their instructors are highly decorated E7s, who have all done stints as DIs, Recruiters, AND (not and/or, but all of these) members of Embassy units as Detachment Commanders (usually an E6 billet at minimum, some higher depending on size/location of Embassy)...as those are the minimums to become an MSG Instructor. So it makes sense to me that their unit E9 would be even more "stacked".

Just saying. =)
Semper Fi.

Im sure some of you might think this is a BS kind of story...but we ARE talking about the Corps here...and it does pass the initial sniff test. Especially on a SgtMaj who may have been one of those guys in for 30+ years and been around since 'Nam (this was around 1995 or so). I do disclose that i cannot confirm this however.
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LTJG Ansi Officer
LTJG (Join to see)
9 y
Great share! MoH recipients are honored above all else. I'm sure you could find the validity of this story by cross referencing the career history against any Marine MoH recipient in the last 30-50 years.
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SSgt Boyd Welch
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There are Leaders and then there are managers. CSGMs and Command CMSGTs have been successful or they wouldn't hold the rank. True Leadership is a rare talent. Most folks just entering the service do not possess that talent(yet). Respect is a two way street. I was lucky enough to follow my Cmsgt on two different assignments. He was crusty as they come but he had the respect of just about everyone above and below him. He respected hard work and courtesy. He did have an exchange with a junior officer who was being disrespectful. He handled it with dignity and respect. Unfortunately, our squadron commander got wind of what took place, and the officer was reassigned. I asked the Chief about it and he said that it was a shame because he thought the officer had potential that he could help develop. My respect for the man grew even more.
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SGT Military Police
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9 y
Somehow CSM Flournoy slipped through the cracks...
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MSG Dan Castaneda
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As an E-8 I would not get to attention for an 0-1.
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SSG Platoon Sergeant
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9 y
SGT (Join to see) (just because you asked) - The phrase "do what your rank can handle" immediately comes to mind...
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SGT Writer
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9 y
SSG (Join to see) and LTJG (Join to see) - He's also SF. In big-boy-rules communities, if you have to pull rank, something has gone completely astray.
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MSG Dan Castaneda
MSG Dan Castaneda
9 y
SGT (Join to see) - You are absolutely correct. The only LTs in SF, are support guys. They respect us as we do them. There is no need for a Lt to try to lock me up. The only way this would happen is if maybe he wasn't in the unit and I crossed paths with him in let's say the PX. Even then most 0-1s are like 20 years old. They're rank will not suffice. If they were smart they would get they're point across without pulling rank. Then we can both go on our merry way.
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MAJ Multifunctional Logistician
MAJ (Join to see)
>1 y
MSG, I hate to burst your bubble but rules dont change for Military Courtesy and Respect simply because a Soldier is SF. As a 1LT, I had a SF Team NCOIC disrespect me. At first I was going to let the situation go but I decided to address it as I was extremely bothered by his actions. I went in to the same room he did and found him. I informed him that is actions were not those of a SNCO and he should not continue to do so. He response was that he as a Team NCOIC and only answered to his Team CPT. At which point, I informed him that his actions had nothing to do with the team and he was wrong and as a SNCO he should know better.
Being a prior SNCO myself, I always inform the 1SG/CSM of the SNCO of what I did and why, this time it was a CSM who I worked with a daily basis. Anyway, when the SFC reported to the CSM for another subject, he was informed that I as a 1LT was absolutely correct and he was wrong. He also informed the SFC that I was prior enlisted with an extreme amount of prior services and he was extremely lucky I did not report the situation my Boss. I highly doubt that SFC would forget that lesson anytime soon. Military Courtesy and Respect doesn't change simply because a Soldier is part of SOCOM.
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PO2 Information Systems Technician
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An O1 (Ensign -Navy) and an E9 (Master Chief- Navy) crossed paths in a Training command; the O1 stops and sees that he wasn't saluted and Turns around to the E9 to say "excuse me Master Chief did you forget something?" , The Master chief looks back perplexed then says "Oh I suppose I did", Master Chief reaches into his pocket and pulls out a Navy Coin and Tosses it to the O1, "Here" he says!, "tell your mother you met a real sailor today!" then goes about and carries on with his day.
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SGT Alex Kendrick
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Yes the E9 would have to based on rank. How ever the E9 was promoted how many mor times than the LT.? Officers should not be in position based on the fact that they went to college. Most NCO's have more experience in lofe than most Officers have in Rank. You should not be able to be an Officer until you are an E4.
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CPO Robrandt-Paul Sy Go
CPO Robrandt-Paul Sy Go
>1 y
What's the difference between a Seaman and an Ensign?

A Seaman has been promoted twice.
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SrA Mark Freeman
SrA Mark Freeman
>1 y
Heck, I've had E-4s make butter bars cry...
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CSM (Non-Rated)
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Having been a CSM at the BDE level this would never happen but if it did I would comply.. I promise you it would never happen unless the E9 was a shit bag. That LT would be almost murdered by the COL or LTC..

There is a rank structure but when you have a CSM most officers respect that and know the boundaries and I as a CSM would never put myself in a position to cross that.
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1SG Dr. Dennis Zerull
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Respect for rank is one thing. Disrespect from a man child is quite another. I never stood up for anyone less the field grade in my orderly room BTW...
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SPC Wanda Vergara-Yates
SPC Wanda Vergara-Yates
>1 y
Sometimes you have to sit down in order to service the person. I sat for a lot of SNCOs in my time. I had to in order to process their retirement packets. They were consistently glad about this.
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Mary Brown Fry
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My father retired 30yrs Sgt Major USMC. In my late 20's I attended an event with my parents. Walking up to the building, I was beside my mother, not paying attention, my dad was coming around to walk curb side. The Generals car was approaching ... my dad almost knocked me down, telling me to get out of the way. He stopped and saluted the passing General. RESPECT.... for my dad.
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PV2 Jake Swearengin
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I know i got out as a PV2... But. I was in S3, was my commanders driver for a time, then was my S3 sgtmaj driver afterwards. I've seen fresh from westpoint butterbars rip into CSMs a few times, to very bad effect for the 2LT. On the same note, saw one tore up 2LT park in one of the "GENERAL OFFICER" spots at the PX and get his head ripped off by my Bde. CSM, guy tried to act like he didn't know what "GENERAL OFFICER" meant... We need more info on the realistic situation. I as a fuzzy corrected my SFC platoon SGT about his ACUs being jacked up, just said "SGT *******, your boot lace is hanging out, just thought you'd like to know." he fixed it, then thanked me for pointing it out to him in a way that didn't bring everyone elses attention to the issue. Tact people, tact.
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SPC Wanda Vergara-Yates
SPC Wanda Vergara-Yates
>1 y
What kind of Private would you be if you did not politely let your Platoon SFC know this? You may have saved him from redface before a big meeting. Subtlety is always welcome.
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