Would an E9 comply if ordered to attention by an O1?

I’ve never seen a Lt correct anyone E6 SSGT (E6) and above.

What I have observed is senior officers setting the tone for new officers.

I was a/the Sgt Battalion S2 just down the hall from the CO. We would periodically have new officers check in and the first person they met was the CO. Suffice it that you could hear a rumbling from down the hall and a few minutes later, the young officer would walk in and humbly check in.

The CO’s message was don’t mess with my Staff NCOs and NCOs.

The Col was a fair and firm leader who knew how to get the most out of his leadership team. If you were one of those Staff NCOs or NCOs, you’d better be locked in as well.

Final note was the CO used those new fresh from OCS officers to run the remedial PT program if you fell out of his battalion runs. Suffice it that those freaking Lts were gazelles and got their payback!

A smart gold bar seeks the advice of his senior NCOs. I’m not saying I am smart but that is what I did and it paid off. It was my job to make decisions and give orders, it was their job to make sure I had the proper information and suggestions to do mine. Give and get respect because we all want the same thing,

Had a buddy, E-3 at the time, who worked in the biomedical equipment shop with a CWO at Ft. Campbell. Worked side by side all day long. So one day, these two brand-new Screaming Eagle butterbars come into the shop for something, and the first thing one of them does is start screaming at my buddy, who is quietly working, saying "When a superior officer enters the room, you come to goddam attention!!" Then they look over at the Chief, who's old enough to be their dad, and said "Chief, correct your man!" Chief just looked at him for a long time and said "Son, I hope whatever you came here for isn't a rush job, because you just made the bottom of the list."

The LT needs to learn his place, I’ve LT’s do stupid shit like this only to get the CSM’s CDR to tear the LT a new one. If the CSM is like the pathetic example of the one with the hair grooming standards from hell. Have at it LT. Unfortunately many don’t understand the CSM’s relation and position in units as well as his authority and who he “only” reports too.

Not an LT story, but at Edson Range ten years ago immediately after earning the title of Marine, the Colonel in charge of Weapons Field Training Battalion was giving us a little rundown on a tradition of recognizing the conpany high shooter. He told us the story of how things worked when the current Btn SgtMajor was at boot camp and how he recently recommended that said tradition be brought back. The colonel told us, "I am not a smart man, so when a Sergeant Major with 30 years of experience says something, I listen!" Even at that high rank the colonel taught us all about the immense respect that SNCOs deserve even from high-ranking officers, and it is something I never forgot. Every Marine SNCO ive ever met would treat any fresh butter bar with the highest respect, but at the same time every butter bar I ever met--and MOS school was at Camp Johnson so it sas filled with new Basic School grads--ALWAYS treated our Sergeant Major and Master Gunnery Sergeants with respect.

Definitely if it was in front of junior enlisted. He’s setting an example. In private? Probly not.

I remember in Korea we had a 1st Lieutenant who was our commander while the commander was on leave. We were at PT formation when the CSM wanted to talk to the troops. The CSM was talking and out of nowhere the LT tells him to hurry up we needed to do our PT. There was silence. CSM raised his finger to say just a minute and continued to talk. The Battalion Commander who was present grabbed the LT and took him across the field and began tearing into him. Though the CSM was talking it was hard not to hear the BC ripping the LT. It was great time and hard to listen to the CSM after that.

I had a brand new 2LT in a Rapid deploying task force as my OIC when I was a SGT at FT. Hood. There was an empty office next to the Battalion Command Group and she took it. She told the Battalion CSM to take her trash out on day one. The CSM took her trash out at the end of day one. Day two I saw her with a cardboard box moving her office downstairs and started crying in front of our Soldiers...

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Absolutely not. Sure, he technically should but a Master Guns couldn't give two fucks about anything really and a SgtMaj would probably just lose his shot and make the Lt cry or something

As an E4 SF, our former chief, at the time our Command Chief, was ordered by a 2LT to salute him while assisting at base entry...Command CMSGT says, "I've had these stripes longer than you've been in the Air Force"....guess who drove off, tail tucked between their legs? Lol

From what Ive seen, back at my AIT at Ft Gordon, it wasnt really with an E9 and a 2lt, but it was an officer and the senior NCO, if anything after the NCO saluted and everything, the officer was the one standing in parade rest while talking with the NCO.
So yes, even though it is under the oath of enlistment, an NCO should render a salute to an officer no matter what, but in the end, the NCO (whether its an E-5 or E-9) has more experience than a new officer (who only got commissioned through the cadet program, or ROTC, or any officer school) and that officer should still respect the NCO.

Yes, he would be required to, but it would be under protest most likely if they were arguing

Of course the E9 would be required to obey the order. No one id bound to obey any illegal order but a Second Lieutenant ordering Sergeant Major to attention is not an illegal order. Commissioned officers are commissioned by the Congress while Noncommissioned officers are promoted by the respective branches of service to serve in positions of authority over other enlisted members of lower grades only. Noncommissioned officers have no law enforcement over subordinates whereas commissioned offers do have such authority.

it depends on the Situation. I have chewed on a couple of Lt´s necks and set them straight as an E-7. The bars on the shoulders are there to learn from their Senior NCO´s. I guess I pissed off a couple of officers because I operarted as a Platoon Sergeant for 10 years without a Platoon Leader.

He should. I once saw a master chief GM choke the shit out of a lieutenant jg

It would be set day for the Lt

yes

Yes, as a young specialist at Ft. Ord, CA, a young O1 jumped on my battalion CSM and a group of 1SG. That evening, I was on staff duty at the battalion hq and the battalion commander called the young 01 into his office and ate him alive.

2lt would lose

I've seen ignorance or arrogance but that level of disrespect towards an E-9? Nope. I will watch tho, from a safe distance!

WOW. Who is that fresh and stupid? #Whenbutterbarsscrewup

I had an ensign tell my cmc to get to attention and cmc complied but shortly after wards the CO walked over told the cmc to carry on and proceed to destroy the 0-1. One thing you do not do in the Navy is mess with a cos cmc especially when they like them.

He has to weather anyone likes it or not

Yeah but...

He would have to comply, but his captain is going to pay for it, shit roles down hill

He has to....but the 03 will have his ass later for the sheer disrespect to a senior enlisted

The E9 from a professional standpoint and Army Regulations would be compelled to comply with the order.

Yes, the ensign would pay. He would never make that mistake again.

Got to watch this happen at nsa bahrain, right in the middle of the spine. That cmc stopped so damn fast i halted too (was walking behind him) for a hot second i thought i was in trouble too!!!

Of course by Army Regulation, and the Army standard that SGM/CSM always stressing to uphold, he/she should come to Attention, but you can bet your bottom dollars, that will be the last time that particular 01 losses his/her mind!!

The E9 bring the professional that he or she should be would comply, right or wrong the 2Lt is a commissioned Officier and does out rank the E-9. I would then expect the E-9 to address the situation in a professional manner as to not cause undo embassment to him or her self or the 2Lt.

Professional answer- Comply with this cherry officer because as Sr. NCO's it's our DUTY to teach lieutenants how to become effective leaders, and why the NCO/CPO is the backbone of the uniformed service's.

REAL WORD ANSWER/Response-In whatever terms of expression you decide, it's now time to "school" this butter bar on topics such as Rank Vs Authority; Pride and Professionalism Vs a virgin ego; Using "creative language " explain that the stripes you are wearing are embedded into your personality, and that it took you longer to earn them than the Cherry officer has time on the planet. Then, as the Echo-9, you speak with all the NCO's in the unit and explain the incident. More than likely, the end result, this cherry officer will not have any enlisted person from E-1 up respecting, trusting him, or supporting him. Lastly, if none of the above work, point blank advise the little $hit bird that in a few months you'll have made a major transition, while this dirt-bag officer will have to wallow around in his own personal $hit he just created by trying to twist the age old military phenomenon of confusing rank with authority, and who really would give a good #uck that a SGM/CSM/MCPO/CMSGT didn't snap- to for some punk-a$$, wet behind the ear's- breast milk-on the breath butter bar. Who would really give a #uck! The E9 more than likely will have between 21-30 years of service. The only thing that may possibly be said by senior ranking officers, is that maybe the E-9 was a little " too hard, or too graphic" with the butter-bar, and it might create an insecurity complex for him. Big deal!

No, because "what does the Lieutenant know". A chief knows! That Lieutenant is there to learn.

Yes

Yes. The battle would relocate behind a closed door. E9 would win and the LT would be enlightened.

Under UCMJ he would have to but there would Def be some major issues happening, dietary first I don't know any 2nd LT''s that would have the balks to do it but if they did I think they would have their assess handed to then and I dint know any enlisted men that would day they saw anything

Yes unf

He would but also not like it

Comply

Indeed he would out of respect, but, ohh boyyy!! He would learn a lesson afterwards that would most definetly shape him/her into becoming a great officer.

An O2 tried it on me in the ward room. After I got through chewing him out a new asshole, the Skipper had some enlightenment for him also.

Only once!!! That 01 would have a very bad day!!!

I feel that he would do the same thing that i have read in most of the responses. He would comply with the first time and then ask the officer to step into his office for a conversation. Now saying that, how the officer's response must be considered. The situation can go either North or South

He would, but it would be the last time it ever happened! The boot ENS/2LT would then have a come to Jesus meeting on Pecking order, respect, and who makes it possible for him to get promoted!

Probably so, but Lt better be squared away with whatever his case is. Otherwise Top is going to eat that Lt for lunch.

He might be pretty cheesed, but he would comply.

No he would not and the little 2lt would be shoveling rubber dogshit to fly to Hong kong.

What jo would be stupid enough to do that? The hypothetical is funny but I couldn't see it happening

The answer would be Yes, but I would not want to be that O-1 when they were alone behind closed doors later.

2Lt would be left standing peeing in his//ers pants!!

My csm was the most genialy terrifying man I have ever met. IMMIGRATED from south America to join the u.s.military, was sent to the Marines. IF a lewy tried to lock him on, I swear it would have dissolved into goo from THE LOOK, and then been taken to the tree line. Repeatedly.

I never got to see a Junior Officer face off with a E-9 but I did witness a LCDR face off(lmao) with a CWO-3. It was glorious, I have never seen a man before with his tail so convincingly between his legs.

Unofficer Ike to pull rank with other staff ncos and officers over an argument. The CSM would be fired up and definitely not come to attention.

Sure the E9 needs to comply, but life would be hell for the LT after that.

O1 would be better off brown nosing just about any NCO

I heard of an old school E-9 was stopped by an O-2 and told the MC "on Governors Island we render and return salutes with pride". The MC reached in his pocket, pulled out a dime and tossed it to him, "call your mother and tell her you talked to a real sailor". The officer just stood and watched him walk away. The person who told me about this was a new fireman at the time, was walking with the MC, said he was shaking in his boots not knowing if he should salute or keep walking like the MC.

Yes

He would obey the order but I'm sure there would be hell to pay from his BN Commander lol

Yes - out of military respect, chain of command....but it would be brought to the 01 attention afterwards!

My question is what would happen if an LT.tried putting the SMA at attention, that my brothers and sisters in arms would be a show

Yes the E9 would comply but believe it will not end there

Yes, but later on the 2nd Lt. would get his ass chewed out by his CO

Yes. This actually happened to me when I was a young platoon leader. The Bn CSM called for my PSG to come to a meeting when my training meeting was going in. I sent word back by the CQ runner to let the CSM know he would be there when my training meeting was over (and since my training meeting was on the CO's training calendar I was obligated to conduct it); 10 mins later the Bn CSM kicks in my platoon room door, looks at me, points to my PSG and tells him to "collect his shit and get to his office now!" Then he turns to me and starts to tell me that When he calls for his PSGs I don't stop SFC ****** from coming, and- well that's where I stopped him. I was furious. I leaped up and even today can't remember all the things that came out of my mouth. I do however remember the very first words and they were "shut the fuck up and come to the position of attention!" At first he refused, but I gave him an ultimatum... do it or I call the MPs and file an official charge of disrespect and disobeying a lawful order. He did and I ripped into him for a good 2/3 mins. I made him announce in front of my PSG and SLs that he understood that I was an officer, that I outranked him and that he was wrong for disrespecting me. He was pissed, but what he didn't know about me was I had spend nearly 8 years enlisted so I wasn't a new, green LT and had witnessed the treatment CSMs gave LTs in the pass. Yeah, of course he ran his candy ass to BC, my CO and I were in his office 20 mins later, but when I explained what went down the BC yelled at both of us for a few mins and send us packing.

I did my last 7 years at ft.benning ga with the 36th engineer group. The only time we saw our CSM was on Thursday's in the motor pool and at this he had his head so far up battalion commander ass he carried a bottle of Windex so he could clean battalion commander's stomach off so he could he see where he was going. Now I did have few good CSM in my career.

CSM would probably comply, but that butterbar would get his ass reamed by that Battalion or Brigade XO and CO.. And that would probably be a death blow to his career for screwing with a guy that has 26 years in service, considering he probably has 2 years in as a 2LT..

The LT may get skull fucked

Oh my lord I seriously suspect all hell would break loose

2d lt would hate his life

Only at first... but afterward, watch out!

Yed

I think so BUT, the upper brass would hear of it post haste! And the next liberty ?????????