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https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/15/us/video-is-released-in-police-shooting-of-dylan-noble-in-fresno.amp.html?client=ms-android
My question is this. Watching the body cam from multiple POVs in the same situation, same information available as those officers had would you have shot yourself? Regardless of whether or not you believe you would have pulled the trigger do you think the shooting was justified based on the content of the video? Specifically, do you think the third and fourth shots were necessary or justified, again regardless of whether you would have taken the first or second? And finally if you would not have shot what do you believe would have been appropriate/effective and why?
Personally I believe the first shot fired was justified under the circumstances and believe that in the same situation I would have taken that first shot. I don't believe any of the subsequent shots were either necessary or appropriate, (although I admit the second shot might still be defensible under certain circumstances) In fact they seem to be the result of a lack of tactical proficiency and possibly even panic. Shouldn't the officer who fired rushed to restrain the suspect and provide first aid/secure the weapon as necessary while his partner pulled security?
My question is this. Watching the body cam from multiple POVs in the same situation, same information available as those officers had would you have shot yourself? Regardless of whether or not you believe you would have pulled the trigger do you think the shooting was justified based on the content of the video? Specifically, do you think the third and fourth shots were necessary or justified, again regardless of whether you would have taken the first or second? And finally if you would not have shot what do you believe would have been appropriate/effective and why?
Personally I believe the first shot fired was justified under the circumstances and believe that in the same situation I would have taken that first shot. I don't believe any of the subsequent shots were either necessary or appropriate, (although I admit the second shot might still be defensible under certain circumstances) In fact they seem to be the result of a lack of tactical proficiency and possibly even panic. Shouldn't the officer who fired rushed to restrain the suspect and provide first aid/secure the weapon as necessary while his partner pulled security?
Police
Law Enforcement
Violence
Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 14
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Not a single one of us reading this can say definitively one way or the other because not a single one of us was standing there with a gun in hand and seeing what that officer saw or perceived that he saw.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Chris Rock - How not to get your ass beat by cops.
WATCH THIS AMAZING VIDEO!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2Z8I_fx_fc
Capt Michael Greene - Give me a fucking break Sir! Read the DOJ's own statistics. Black offenders commit the lion's share of violent crime in this nation.
13% of the population accounts for almost 80% of the violent crime. In Charlotte NC, when there is a robbery, a murder , a rape , or an assault, the description of and the video of the crime indicates that 8 out of 10 times the perp is "An African-American male 5'8-6'1, between the ages of 16 and 30, wearing braids and a dark hoodie."
What part of ... Assault, shoplifting, breaking into cars, robbery, rape, assault on a female, selling dope, possession with intent, possession of a firearm by a felon, probation violation, driving without a license.... Is against the law do they not understand. Perhaps and I am just guessing here, perhaps IF they did not break the law they would not get arrested, beat the fuck up or shot! When I have a African American customer, wanting to buy a gun I can tell before they say a single word if they will pass a FBI-NICS Federal background check or not. I am about 95% right over the past 11 years. After I talk to them for less tan 5 minutes, my guess rate goes up to 99%. It is SAD that they respond with Chest thumping pride that they "Don't got no felony CONVICTIONS." Or "Does my Juvenile record count?"
We will NEVER FIX this if we continue to have the attitude that you have which makes excuses for this. We need to empower local leaders to try to establish programs that encourage and teach young black males how to be responsible Men and Fathers. those programs MUST also have a punishment aspect to show that crime is NOT an option. The revolving door needs to be chained shut and after three strikes you are OUT for life...PERIOD.
I understand you want to blame the government for everything, but NO ONE forces these thugs to be thugs, and thus become a target of opportunity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQLCF4Tiqg4
13% of the population accounts for almost 80% of the violent crime. In Charlotte NC, when there is a robbery, a murder , a rape , or an assault, the description of and the video of the crime indicates that 8 out of 10 times the perp is "An African-American male 5'8-6'1, between the ages of 16 and 30, wearing braids and a dark hoodie."
What part of ... Assault, shoplifting, breaking into cars, robbery, rape, assault on a female, selling dope, possession with intent, possession of a firearm by a felon, probation violation, driving without a license.... Is against the law do they not understand. Perhaps and I am just guessing here, perhaps IF they did not break the law they would not get arrested, beat the fuck up or shot! When I have a African American customer, wanting to buy a gun I can tell before they say a single word if they will pass a FBI-NICS Federal background check or not. I am about 95% right over the past 11 years. After I talk to them for less tan 5 minutes, my guess rate goes up to 99%. It is SAD that they respond with Chest thumping pride that they "Don't got no felony CONVICTIONS." Or "Does my Juvenile record count?"
We will NEVER FIX this if we continue to have the attitude that you have which makes excuses for this. We need to empower local leaders to try to establish programs that encourage and teach young black males how to be responsible Men and Fathers. those programs MUST also have a punishment aspect to show that crime is NOT an option. The revolving door needs to be chained shut and after three strikes you are OUT for life...PERIOD.
I understand you want to blame the government for everything, but NO ONE forces these thugs to be thugs, and thus become a target of opportunity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQLCF4Tiqg4
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Capt Michael Greene
SSG Roger Ayscue - Your instant anger is easy to understand, and so you missed everything that could have been inferred from what I said. I gave no excuses. I offered a starting point for understanding. Only by understanding can we begin to solve a problem. Or, we can just lock up all the black men and... Come to think of it, that's what we've been doing for decades.
But the issue is Dylan Noble. Your question was where is the outrage? You didn't like my answer. There it is.
But the issue is Dylan Noble. Your question was where is the outrage? You didn't like my answer. There it is.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Capt Michael Greene - it is more frustration than anger. Making excuses for, and infantalizing them. All I would want to see is to hold each person accountable for their own actions, and IF they break the law then they should be locked up. God knows I dont want to see anyone locked up. I want to see families back together. I want to see kids with both a daddy and a mom. But we have a POTUS that is a race baiting SOB that could care less about white people. BUT then, he could care less about black people too. I want a colorblind society. it will never happen, because those that SAY they want it, who profit from and take advantage of the system and the quotas.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Capt Michael Greene SSG Ryan R. Wait a minute though... Isn't Obama, and Isn't Hillary being touted as "Uniters"? WELL...NOW WE CAN SEE...If you ARE WHITE there is NO JUSTICE in the Obama Justice Department. IF the AG is not concerned about this, then how much creedance can we give to the findings of the FBI, who's director convicted Hillary Clinton of all charges, right before he declined to press charges...how much creedance can we give to Hillary's innocence.
Liberal Democrats...skewing the outcome of Justice since the Great Society. PANDERING TO BUY BLACK VOTES...Shameless and dishonest.
Liberal Democrats...skewing the outcome of Justice since the Great Society. PANDERING TO BUY BLACK VOTES...Shameless and dishonest.
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When I was assigned to security duties, my superiors told me that any person not fully complying with the direction of my Marines was marching down a road that may lead to the application of deadly force.
The typical reaction time to an increase in threat posture is about 2/10ths of a second. That is not a round down range, that is realizing the posture has changed, now you must orient yourself to what the change means, formulate an appropriate reaction, and put it into motion, (the OODA Loop). That can put you a full two to four seconds behind your opponent. That means he can have 1-2 rounds down range at you, or he can cross 40-80 feet of open space to stick a knife in you.
It is a Hollywood myth that center mass shots are necessarily immediately incapacitating. I have heart shot elk that have continued to run a hundred of my paces or more, then fully stood up on my approach, more than two minutes after the shot. Had I not kept distance and obstacles between the animal and myself, I could have easily been seriously injured or killed. I know hunters that have been badly mauled by feral pigs that had fatal center mass shots. A second shot is not a separate decision, it is part and parcel of the decision to apply deadly force. It is my understanding that the human brain is capable of directing the body's movements for almost four minutes, without heart function. Given that information, how do you know that a suspect that goes down is incapacitated?
We need to teach children to fully comply with police commands, offer no resistance, and save their outrage for the police station with the officers' supervisors. I'd rather be alive and spending my award from the lawsuit, than dead.
The typical reaction time to an increase in threat posture is about 2/10ths of a second. That is not a round down range, that is realizing the posture has changed, now you must orient yourself to what the change means, formulate an appropriate reaction, and put it into motion, (the OODA Loop). That can put you a full two to four seconds behind your opponent. That means he can have 1-2 rounds down range at you, or he can cross 40-80 feet of open space to stick a knife in you.
It is a Hollywood myth that center mass shots are necessarily immediately incapacitating. I have heart shot elk that have continued to run a hundred of my paces or more, then fully stood up on my approach, more than two minutes after the shot. Had I not kept distance and obstacles between the animal and myself, I could have easily been seriously injured or killed. I know hunters that have been badly mauled by feral pigs that had fatal center mass shots. A second shot is not a separate decision, it is part and parcel of the decision to apply deadly force. It is my understanding that the human brain is capable of directing the body's movements for almost four minutes, without heart function. Given that information, how do you know that a suspect that goes down is incapacitated?
We need to teach children to fully comply with police commands, offer no resistance, and save their outrage for the police station with the officers' supervisors. I'd rather be alive and spending my award from the lawsuit, than dead.
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TSgt (Join to see)
That's not to say he could have been on drugs. An average size male high on PCP could easily take 10 shots at center mass and keep moving. Like you said, the OODA loop is always revolving and circumstances can dramatically change in a second
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SPC (Join to see)
#Alllivesmatter, but really they're too busy planning and executing ambushes against police officers in Baton Rouge to comment.
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