Posted on Dec 9, 2020
Judah Freed
48.3K
1.92K
627
116
112
4
41bc2e56
What are your professional and personal views on the right and the duty of active and retired military to disobey illegal or unconstitutional orders? (Ref. UCMJ, Articles 90, 91, 92; and the Fourth Geneva Convention.)

For instance, in the event a sitting U.S. President loses an election in the electoral college, and as a means to stay in office declares martial law or invokes the 1807 Insurrection Act, should you obey such an order? Would you individually be willing to comply?

Let's have a frank and friendly discussion on this vital topic....


e.g., https://www.witf.org/2020/06/02/president-trump-says-hell-deploy-military-to-states-if-they-dont-stop-violent-protests/
Edited >1 y ago
Avatar feed
Responses: 210
AA Loreen Silvarahawk
0
0
0
Simply put - No!
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt Jude Eschete
0
0
0
This isn't even a discussion. It's black and white. It is every servicemember's duty to not obey illegal orders. Especially an order that is such a blatant violation of the constitution. Even if I suffered consequences of it from leadership who agreed with the order, at least I know I did the right thing. We swear an oath to the constitution, not the president, and we swear to carry out and obey lawful orders.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Mayo Sifford
0
0
0
I believe, given the circumstances, I would obey the order and seek justification later. Blatently disobeying a direct order can get one shot. I would not comply with an order to fire, for example, on unarmed civilians, without a convincing explanation. Much depends on the circumstances.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Melvin Brandenburg
0
0
0
No
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CPT Special Forces Officer
0
0
0
Okay, who is Judah Freed and why is he on RP without a status indicator?
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Michael Bowen
0
0
0
Edited 3 y ago
Only if there is definitive proof That the election itself was a fraud in order to take power and control of the government . because That would be an insurrection from within . But i Naively think there would be a true and fair investigation and if evidence was allowed to be presented and it was proven fraud did in fact undermine the election the legislature would invalidate the election tighten and plug the holes and hold another True and fair election . Eliminating as much fraud as possible for the good of the Country and it's voting system . And Not ignore the fraud to protect a false impression of a secured process . Because that would only serve the interest of the people committing the fraud . And encourage more of the same in the future . Because with out consequences you will surely get more of the same and it will only get worse . But then whether or not it was Constitutional or not would be questionable . based on opinion or ideology And up to the courts to decide .
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Martin Meyer
0
0
0
Obviously someone is trying to make a political statement here pointed at President Trump. First what constitutes an unlawful order? Is the order one that violates our God Given Rights Guaranteed by Our Constitution? It does not matter who gives the order it is whether or not the order is Constitutional. It does not matter who the Commander in Chief is at the time. If the order is given and is not in violation of our Constitution who decides whether it is "Lawful or Unlawful"? Is it something that the Supreme Court will need to decide on?
We are a Constitutional Republic and our Constitution is the Law of the Land and has served us well over 2 centuries plus.
So in my opinion if the order does not violate our Constitutional Rights then we must presume it to be a lawful order until decided otherwise.
This is a slippery slope we are dealing with here.
(0)
Comment
(0)
SPC Martin Meyer
SPC Martin Meyer
3 y
I realized I did not finish my comment so I am continuing it here. I swore an Oath Many Years ago now to Defend this Nation and Our Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic which would include a Tyrannical Government. I would obey any lawful order given by the then Commander in Chief or one of my Superior Officers no matter who that person is. Just as I would not obey an Unlawful Order given by any of my Superior Officers to include the Commander in Chief at the time. My decision is not based on my political views but whether or not the Order Given was Supported by Our Constitution.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Cpl Mark McMiller
0
0
0
Vital topic? No US President has ever given such an order and the only people who are bringing up this ridiculous premise are know-nothing, liberal ass clowns, so why is it a vital topic?
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Ryan Rink
0
0
0
Would that be an order like harris coming for your guns or sleepy placing mandatory double masks mandates on the American people, is that the kind of orders that you will protect?
I'm just asking, cause I don't care if they are Republicans or Democrats they don't give a shit about you or me. And media is going to portray it the best way that the can to make money from it while taking money from whichever is paying the most.
You want to find out if I will or will not, come onto my property.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CPT Tim Iund
0
0
0
One the first things I learned in the UCMJ course of study in Army ROTC 45 years ago was the right to refuse an unlawful or immoral order. The situation referred to in class was what led to the My Lai massacre during the Vietnam War. Other lesser examples were also covered. The point is that if you are sure it’s unlawful or immoral, refuse the order. But be advised that you will probably face Court Martial to prove it, unless the person giving the order backs down or rescinds the order.
(0)
Comment
(0)
LCpl Kenny Kellar
LCpl Kenny Kellar
3 y
Yes, and that is exactly the intent of a court-martial. Examine the evidence with luxury of hindsight. And again, it comes down to trust of those giving orders. I met several officers I certainly did not trust
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close