Posted on Dec 9, 2020
Judah Freed
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What are your professional and personal views on the right and the duty of active and retired military to disobey illegal or unconstitutional orders? (Ref. UCMJ, Articles 90, 91, 92; and the Fourth Geneva Convention.)

For instance, in the event a sitting U.S. President loses an election in the electoral college, and as a means to stay in office declares martial law or invokes the 1807 Insurrection Act, should you obey such an order? Would you individually be willing to comply?

Let's have a frank and friendly discussion on this vital topic....


e.g., https://www.witf.org/2020/06/02/president-trump-says-hell-deploy-military-to-states-if-they-dont-stop-violent-protests/
Edited >1 y ago
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Responses: 210
MAJ Forrest Davis
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Fastest way to divide your combat power by 2 is a political discussion. Second fastest way is religion. Don’t go there. Not our lane. And resister to vote.
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MAJ Forrest Davis
MAJ Forrest Davis
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*register to vote
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COL Victor Hagan
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I find it troublesome that any commissioned officers whose oath is to support and defend the US Constitution has an issue with stating clear and unequiviocal NO to this question.
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PFC Kimberly Staiti
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You'll get friendly responses or you'll get frank ones. I doubt you'll get them both.
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SGT Jerry Hoy
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Yes, if that's what happened which it did not. What you are saying is hypothetical. The English said the same thing to the colonialist and the people took up arms defying English Law. If half the people in this country thought the election was stolen then there's a problem. SCOTUS had the opportunity to hear the evidence but punted and that's on them. Several states bypassed the constitution and put into place illegal voting reforms bypassing their state legislatures. Just yesterday, Wisconsin Supreme Court admitted the way Wisconsin handled Mail-in ballots was illegal. So now what? You have a lot of pissed off people because the courts were too timid to take the case when it would have mattered. States that unconstitutionally bypassed the constitution include Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Virginia; more than enough illegal votes to have turned the election. People have the right to voice their opinion and be heard. January 6th was our chance to let our voices be heard one more time before certification of the votes. Its becoming clear as this investigation proceeds that our FBI may have had a hand in the more aggressive behavior. Remember, only one person was killed (shot) that day; a woman (Trump supporter) who was unarmed. I seem to remember democrats taking over the Wisconsin State Capitol building for 26hrs and no one was arrested; the Supreme Court was invaded during the Kavanagh hearings. The FBI spied on a sitting president and lied about the whole thing and nothing happened. We have cities burned, dozens of people killed over the summer and very few arrests. People who believe as i do know there were shenanigans that went on during the 2020 election and its becoming pretty evident that there's no way in hell the current occupant in the white house got 81 million votes when he couldn't fill a school gymnasium. The 2022 election is right around the corner and the wokies are gonna get Woke.
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MSG Ron Radar
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Well that Frank and Friendly discussion went the way of the Dodo real quick ! Seems politics brings out the worst in members fast , dang shame as we all know better .
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CW3 Michael Hess
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The article has nothing to do with the question!!! According to the UCMJ no member of the military is bound by an illegal order, regardless of who issued it. But, the individual receiving the order is responsible for determining its legality. Remember orders come down the chain, so generally speaking, your commander (GO, Col, Cpt, etc) have already determined the “order” is legal (maybe).
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SSG George Holtje
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I am bound by my oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic....so No!
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Cpl Benjamin Long
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Well you can argue it's constitutionality in court... Which is the arena for matters of law.
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LTC David Brown
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Edited >1 y ago
There are several points to make. First one is a famous psychological experiment involving a test subject told to apply an electric shock to someone. Despite the person receiving the shock exhibiting extreme discomfort the subject still administered the shock because they were encouraged and given authority. . Second point. During the war on terror two American citizens were executed with out a trial, a finding of fact justifying the order etc. The executions were under the order of a President by drone strike. One of those executed was a 16 year old. I feel this was an unconstitutional order yet I don’t see much discussion.The third is POWs taken during the war on terror. Some of them were sent to countries that preform “ wet work”. Wet work is assignations, and torture. Are those that gave prisoners over to these activities guilty of violating the rules of war and the constitution? What about the United States water boarding? Our monsters and evil doesn’t dwell in the deep dark of night but in the gray gloom of night fall and in the shadows in our hearts.
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SMSgt Bob Wilson
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What is an unconstitutional order? Judah, your sound like a "would a, could a, and what if" sort of person. I don't remember "martial law" being declared within the past 50 years. However, the following is a listing of times "martial law" was declared:
 American Revolution
 New Orleans in War of 1812
 Nauvoo, Illinois, during the Illinois Mormon War (1843)
 Utah War (1857)
 Baltimore (1861)
 Ex parte Milligan (1863)
 The Great Chicago Fire (1871)
 Coeur d'Alene, Idaho (1892)
 San Francisco earthquake of 1906
 Colorado Coalfield War (1914 and 1917)
 West Virginia Coal Wars (1920-1921)
 Minneapolis, Minnesota (1934)
 San Francisco, California (1934)
 Territory of Hawaii in World War II (1941-1944)
 Russell County, Alabama (1954–55)
 Freedom Riders (1961)
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