Posted on Dec 9, 2020
Judah Freed
59.9K
1.33K
550
113
109
4
41bc2e56
What are your professional and personal views on the right and the duty of active and retired military to disobey illegal or unconstitutional orders? (Ref. UCMJ, Articles 90, 91, 92; and the Fourth Geneva Convention.)

For instance, in the event a sitting U.S. President loses an election in the electoral college, and as a means to stay in office declares martial law or invokes the 1807 Insurrection Act, should you obey such an order? Would you individually be willing to comply?

Let's have a frank and friendly discussion on this vital topic....


e.g., https://www.witf.org/2020/06/02/president-trump-says-hell-deploy-military-to-states-if-they-dont-stop-violent-protests/
Edited 5 y ago
Avatar feed
Responses: 203
SPC Martin Meyer
0
0
0
Obviously someone is trying to make a political statement here pointed at President Trump. First what constitutes an unlawful order? Is the order one that violates our God Given Rights Guaranteed by Our Constitution? It does not matter who gives the order it is whether or not the order is Constitutional. It does not matter who the Commander in Chief is at the time. If the order is given and is not in violation of our Constitution who decides whether it is "Lawful or Unlawful"? Is it something that the Supreme Court will need to decide on?
We are a Constitutional Republic and our Constitution is the Law of the Land and has served us well over 2 centuries plus.
So in my opinion if the order does not violate our Constitutional Rights then we must presume it to be a lawful order until decided otherwise.
This is a slippery slope we are dealing with here.
(0)
Comment
(0)
SPC Martin Meyer
SPC Martin Meyer
5 y
I realized I did not finish my comment so I am continuing it here. I swore an Oath Many Years ago now to Defend this Nation and Our Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic which would include a Tyrannical Government. I would obey any lawful order given by the then Commander in Chief or one of my Superior Officers no matter who that person is. Just as I would not obey an Unlawful Order given by any of my Superior Officers to include the Commander in Chief at the time. My decision is not based on my political views but whether or not the Order Given was Supported by Our Constitution.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Cpl Mark McMiller
0
0
0
Vital topic? No US President has ever given such an order and the only people who are bringing up this ridiculous premise are know-nothing, liberal ass clowns, so why is it a vital topic?
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Ryan Rink
0
0
0
Would that be an order like harris coming for your guns or sleepy placing mandatory double masks mandates on the American people, is that the kind of orders that you will protect?
I'm just asking, cause I don't care if they are Republicans or Democrats they don't give a shit about you or me. And media is going to portray it the best way that the can to make money from it while taking money from whichever is paying the most.
You want to find out if I will or will not, come onto my property.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CPT Tim Iund
0
0
0
One the first things I learned in the UCMJ course of study in Army ROTC 45 years ago was the right to refuse an unlawful or immoral order. The situation referred to in class was what led to the My Lai massacre during the Vietnam War. Other lesser examples were also covered. The point is that if you are sure it’s unlawful or immoral, refuse the order. But be advised that you will probably face Court Martial to prove it, unless the person giving the order backs down or rescinds the order.
(0)
Comment
(0)
LCpl Kenny Kellar
LCpl Kenny Kellar
>1 y
Yes, and that is exactly the intent of a court-martial. Examine the evidence with luxury of hindsight. And again, it comes down to trust of those giving orders. I met several officers I certainly did not trust
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
1px xxx
Suspended Profile
If an order is demonstrably illegal then every service member is honor bound to disobey it. If there is no way to determine legality one way or another then it's dealers choice. Just keep in mind that either way you will be held accountable for YOUR actions, most assuredly if you harm American Citizens based upon your choices. Where is "the line" when dealing with tyrannical political dictates and illegal actions (criminal) to maintain or usurp political authority? Read up on the Battle of Athens, 1946.
MSgt Allen Chandler
0
0
0
If I knew the order What is unlawful / Illegal And Dangerous to the common good I definitely would not obey it. I answer it that way because If my boss told me to go next-door and steal a I need pin from somebody else so we could get the job done I just might do it. But you're obviously talking aboutA real world situation todayAnd there is a real fearThat what you're talking about might happen. I believe / And hope That there are enough good people at the Pentagon in all the walls of the military That he just couldn't do this.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Cpl Robert Russell Payne
0
0
0
Wouldn't obey an illegal order or unlawful order but the US military isn't bound by the Constitution so the answer to that part of the question would obviously be yes. WDE!
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
PV2 Glen Lewis
0
0
0
No.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Dwight Beaver
0
0
0
Seems to me that main stream media has been making this same spin since the election
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
PO3 Paul Scheel
0
0
0
The very minute he issues that order he will be a Enemy of the State and should be arrested on site secert service will have to stand down and president arrested vp assumes the presidency speaker of the house moves into the vice president seat until jan 20,2021
(0)
Comment
(0)
SSG Stephen Arnold
SSG Stephen Arnold
>1 y
The Speaker is not automatically promoted. According to the 25th Amendment, the president nominates a VP and both houses must confirm for them to take office.

I think you’ve confused replacing the VP with the succession of power. The Speaker is president when neither the president or vp can serve.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close